Test E / NPP

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Test E / NPP

Hey folks.  Working out the details on something here and could really use the educated input from the MG Family.  Planning a Test E / NPP cycle .... and before everyone flames me for mixing short and long esters let my just say that theres a reason for it.  I happen to have a very nice supply of both of these so I am gonna make it work.  My questions come down to pinning schedule and max oil volume per injection.  Thinking of running 600mg Test E / Week with 450mg NPP / week.  First off, go ahead and let me know if you all think this is too high a dose for my first dance with NPP .... but I arrived at that dose based on my body weight ....6'5"  265lbs. 

Anyway .... I know that NPP needs more frequent injections per week so I am attempting to set this up with the minimal amount of pins per week.  I was thinking of going M/W/F for the NPP .... and doing the Test E on the same days which is 3x per week rather than the standard 2x week.  Main reasoning is to try and get r done with 3 pins a week AND be able to load both compounds into the same syringe each time.  And this brings me to my next question ... just how much is the max volume you can safely pin in each location?  Quads and Delts being my go-to places ...  And I will probably have to add glutes to the mix now with more frequent injections. 

Let me know what everyone thinks.

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Damn ur a big dude! Seems

Damn ur a big dude! Seems many folks run sust which is longs and short with npp...but I'm all ears as to what the gurus say. Shooting the glutes is a chore, butt, they can take a lot gear. I always have trouble with the right one for some reason, and my gf won't do it for me. I hate hitting the delts, hard to reach. Oh woe the troubles of gear heads ;)

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Hit your delts more towards

Hit your delts more towards the front delt rather than the side. It's a lot easier.

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I'll give it a shot lol. Do u

I'll give it a shot lol. Do u pin pecs too?

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I agree with Dolf. Move

I agree with Dolf. Move towards the front delt. He got me to pin pecs too. I go 2" directly above nipple. I've pinned upper pecs but that didn't go well for me...

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I can definitely reach the

I can definitely reach the front delt, damn pecs won't let me get to the medial. Guess that's a good thing. I think I'll give pecs a try when I'm back in cruise mode. Don't think i wanna dump 2.5 into the pec just yet 

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My first pec pin was 2 cc. It

My first pec pin was 2 cc. It was the easiest virgin muscle ive pinned...

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1.5cc for me. It was the best

1.5cc for me. It was the best virgin muscle pin, but was a nerve racking pin. Kinda like my first pin ever.

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My first Pec pin was in

My first Pec pin was in before I knew it. I just tried upper pecs on last cycle. It wasn't for me. 2" above the nip and I'm good..

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That's my spot too. I use 23g

That's my spot too. I use 23g 1" pin

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Of course its your spot bro.

Of course its your spot bro. You told me where to pin. I haven't received anything from you but good advice.

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bro, why dont you use 5/8th

bro, why dont you use 5/8th or even 1/2 inch needles. I even use 5/8th for my delts, SO much better than 1" which i used to use. Sometimes less is more  ;)

 

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They use 1" for flu shots so

They use 1" for flu shots so I figured 1" is fine for aas too. Plus I used a 1" in the beginning, but only inserted it halfway in. I had oil leak sub q and turn my delt and bicep red and hot all the wsy down to the elbow. Hasn't happened since I started burying that bitch balls deep lol 

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Something about pinning pecs

Something about pinning pecs just freaks me out.  I guess its something to do with putting a needle into your chest .... even though logic dictates a 1" pin ain't gonna make it to anything vital .... still doesn't sound good to me.  Although I am very aware that I will need to get over this with regard to new locations .... 4 spots won't work with as many pins as I will be doing.  I think I am gonna give the glutes a try before I entertain the pecs.  Adding glutes will give me 6 locations in the rotation .... probably need to find a couple more just to be on the safe side. 

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with glutes, you get 4 spots.

with glutes, you get 4 spots. upper and lower spot on each glute. 4 total.

chest isnt bad, but it feels really weird to me. and i am not comfortable pushing anything more than 1/2cc in each pec. Some people are concerned because its close to your heart, and if any "leakage" happens, its too close to your heart and organs. The logic doesnt make too much sense, but still adds to the freakish side of the experience.

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Thats what freaked me out at

Thats what freaked me out at first too until I snapped that your ribs and cartilage protect your heart and lungs. You'd have to go through your muscle, cartilage, and your ribs to reach the heart or lungs. 

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Yes sir. I pin glutes, quads,

Yes sir. I pin glutes, quads, delts, and pecs.

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Troubles indeed.  I have

Troubles indeed.  I have never pinned glutes so that will be a new one for me.  Delts and Quads have been enough of a rotation with the simple Test only cycle ... but with more frequent pinning and additional compounds only 4 locations just isn't gonna cut it.  My lady pins my delts for me .... I hit my quads.  But she told me she won't pin my glutes.  She thinks there's to big a risk of hitting the sciatic nerve .... that and the fact that I ain't got much of an ass to begin with. 

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Glutes are by far the best

Glutes are by far the best pin spot. To teach her where to pin have her take a marker and draw a cross on your cheek with 4 even quadrants. Anywhere in the upper outside quadrant is good to pin. It really easy.

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If it were me, I'd pin the

If it were me, I'd pin the npp m/w/f & the the test e m&w. It wouldn't hurt to pin it m/w/f though imo. 

Heres some help with pinning locations bro

http://musclegurus.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/steroid-cycles/pin-location

 

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Make sure to run your test e

Make sure to run your test e for 3 weeks before starting the npp. Don't want 19nor sides hitting you because the npp is a much shorter ester.

450mg npp ew is a standard dose. I'd up the test e to 750mg ew to get closer to that 2 to 1 test to npp ratio.

Quads can hold 3ml or cc and delts I usually recommend no more than 1.5ml or cc, but you being a bigger guy could do 2ml or cc.

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GLUTES

I used to pin VGlute or upper right outer quadrant which is what you see everywhere online, then I stumbled onto this this summer and its been a live save honestly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-EY_4P67Hs

no pip and I think mainly its because that area of muscle isn't under stress or tension when you walk or sit.

Above the buttcrack and about 2/3 of the way out towards your right or left side. Its easy to do with a 23 g or even a 25 g. I will stick with this indefinitely whereas I saw a huge difference and the muscle can hold a good volume of oil.

Quads i seem to hit nerves more often then not. I love delts for my 1-1.5 cc pokes.

When I pin long esters i go left delt, left glute, right glute right delt and repeat. If your doing E3D its 13 days before the rotation starts over in the left dealt which is plenty of time for oil to disipate.

EOD injects I will add quads to the rotation. giving me 6 sites to poke which equates to about the same 13 days before you hit a location for the second time

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It took a lot of trial and

It took a lot of trial and error to find a nerve free location in my quads. I've hit a nerve a couple times that made the muscle go nuts jumping all over. That time i was using the reference point spelled out in spellwins (crap) book.

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Same here.  Hit nerves in

Same here.  Hit nerves in both quads several times before getting the proper location / technique dialed in.  Now I pin them with no issue.  Delts are great also but I am gonna limit it to no more than 1.5 cc for them.  So if I want to try and keep each pin in the 1.5 cc range it looks like 5 pins a week for me.  M/W/F 1.5cc of Npp (450mg weekly total)   and Sat / Tue  1.5cc Test E (750mg weekly total).  So only days with no pins would be Thursday and Sunday.  Damn! .... big change from just pinning 2x weekly ... gonna feel like a pincushion even with the added location (glutes).  So that will give me 6 spots in rotation  (Delts, Glutes and Quads) .... and with 5 pins a week even that doesn't sound optimal .... don't think I am ready to start pinning the more obscure muscles just yet ... Pecs just sounds painful ... as does tris and calves which I hear some guys add into their rotation.  You truly gotta love this game to go through this part .... and I do   ;)

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The whole procedure is quite

The whole procedure is quite ritualistic to say the least. Bet everyone does it slightly differently.  When i was running a gram of test prop, i had to split it into two doses, with two different pin locations because the soreness was sometimes excruciating if i put the full load into a muscle. I did this daily for eight weeks; 112 jabs!  Honestly, once in awhile i really wanted to skip a day, but i never did. Agreed, gotta love it to endure it. Ain't for the faint of heart, that's for sure!

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thought

just go EOD and on just split your 740 test up into those shots, no need to make separate pin days for the E, or pin Test E on Mon Fri with your NPP and just make those your glute shots due to the volume of oil. Save the delts for any 1.5cc pins

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Simplify

This sounds more complicated than it needs to be.

200mg Test E and 100mg NPP pinned EOD.

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X2 & +2 MrA...over

X2 & +2 MrA...over complicating things is unnecessary. Keeping it simple is so much easier. 

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Thanks everyone ....

Thanks everyone .... sometimes it takes the entire MG Family to make me see the simple solution to these things. 

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Ain't that the truth! It's so

Ain't that the truth! It's so obvious that i wonder how i miss shit sometimes

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Ain't that the truth! It's so

Ain't that the truth! It's so obvious that i wonder how i miss shit sometimes

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So .... how long after

So .... how long after starting Npp should you start prami?  Should it be only if needed or ?  I have read several conflicting articles on the subject so I figured I would put it out to the MG family.  I have read that if you keep E2 in check through the usual AI administration then the need for a DA is often not necessary.  I wouldn't really wanna wait for the plumbing to stop working before hopping on the prami but on the other hand I don't really wanna add in another drug unless its absolutely necessary. 

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Just use it as needed. For

Just use it as needed. For most individuals keeping e2 in check will keep prolactin away. Prami tends to have sides, so take it right before bedtime. You also need to ramp prami up and down. Prami isn't really the best choice of da. If you can get caber I'd definitely pull the trigger. 

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yeah ... I have read up on

yeah ... I have read up on the pros and cons of Prami vs Caber.  Was able to get prami much easier than caber so I went that route.  When the time comes I plan to do the very low dose slow ramp up protocol to avoid the sides if at all possible.

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Prami will get the job done.

Prami will get the job done.

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I hope so.  If you search the

I hope so.  If you search the internet there are so many horror stories about Prami yet it still remains the viable alternative to caber so obviously there are people out there who use if not prefer prami.  Biggest thing I see is the need to dose it very low and slow to avoid the nasty sides.  Seems to me if you start out at something like .125mg/day or 4 days before bumping it up to .25mg for another 4 days or so and so on and so on until you reach .5mg/day .... which from I can gather is the dose that works best.  Now, I will only be running 450.mg/week of npp which is not a low dose but certainly not a super high dose so I feel prami will be fine as long as I adhere to the low and slow dose protocol.    Please correct me if I am wrong .... any valuable information from the educated folks here at MG is very much welcomed. 

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prami can be nasty with

prami can be nasty with nausea feeling, and discomfort. thats why they say take it before bed time, cause if you take in the morning you'll feel like dog shit all day, who wants to do that!

Caber for me has no sides watsoever. its great, powerful, fast acting, and long lasting @ 0.5mg ! How can you beat that :)

Last but not least, whichever one you decide to go with, make sure its PHARMA grade. Dont mess with RCs. Last thing you want to happen is you needing it when you see sides (sore nipples, lactating,...) and you use a fake product, you DO NOT want to risk gyno my friend that might require surgery to remove. PHARMA all the way with Ancillaries like AI, Anti-prolcatin,...etc.

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X2 & +2 sam

X2 & +2 sam

Many use prami because its cheap. A lot cheaper than caber. The problem is many get it from research chem companies and it's either very underdosed or bunk. Caber is easy and has zero sides unless taken in very big doses. Caber works in just a few hours too. Just a much superior product when compared to prami.

What I do is wait until an international source has a good sale like 50% off or buy 1 get 1 free, and then I buy a years worth at a time. Same with getting my pharm grade ai's.

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i def agree on the RCs with

i def agree on the RCs with their shitty bunk / underdosed crap. If its a bunk sarm its 1 story, but if its an AI that you need if your estro is going too high, it better fuc***g work or else you're knee deep in shit. Basically scramble to find another source, put an order in, wait for shipping, ... blah blah all that while you're growing some decent sized boobies! :) 

Thats why me & you urge the PHARMA grade AIs & Ancillaries. 

i do the same thing brother, wait for a 30-50% discount usually year end, and stock up.

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That's because great minds

That's because great minds think alike ; )

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true that!

true that!

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DA

If you decided to stick with my recommendation of 100mg NPP EOD there's a chance you may not need to use a DA. I'm g2g at that dose. I get recomp benefits - metabolism surges, fat gets utilized for fuel. And my penis works fine. Once I get past that 150mg EOD mark is when I get problems.

Honestly that Prami is so harsh, I would rather lower my NPP dose than use it. Which is a benefit to using NPP Vs Deca. If you get Deca dick, it's way too late to lower your dose. You can only fight it.

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Gonna be doing 150mg 3x

Gonna be doing 150mg 3x weekly ...  M/W/F for a total of 450mg/week of Npp.  Along with 750mg / week of Test E.  Keeping E2 in check with Aromasin.  12.5mg/ED has been my sweet spot for asin ... blood work back that up as well.  I will go with the Prami sense that is what I already have but I will titrate the dose low and slow to avoid sides.  Probably gonna hold off for a few weeks before adding in the Prami just to see how things go with the AI .... new to Npp so not sure if I am one of those guys who absolutely needs a DA or not.  We shall see

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Hmm

If 12.5mg of Aro is your sweet spot, then you're definitely more toward the high side of e2 sensitivity. I don't think it's as simple as saying "If you're e2 sensitive, you'll be more prone to prolactin sides," but it's a pretty logical assumption. I think you'll do a good job of keeping an eye on things and you'll learn am awful lot from this cycle which is going to benefit you in the future.

Not all 19nors illicit the same prolactin response. NPP fucks with my prolactin way more than Tren does. Everyone is different. That's why cycle logs and blood work are so important.

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+2 A, blood work tells the

+2 A, blood work tells the story, NUMBERS dont lie!

Iv done plenty of deca & NPP cycles, and i apply aromasin and Caber WEEK 1, i dont wait for sore nipples or any sides to show up to trigger me to add them into the schedule. I put them on schedule week #1 to the end of cycle. Doing that makes me run with deca/npp reaping the benefits without much sides. Nandrolone is 1 of my fav compounds personally.

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As far as ratio of t to

As far as ratio of t to nandrolone, i never do 2:1, cause i like to hit nandrolone in the 500 mg ew range. Does that mean i have to push 1g Test ew?! hell no. So i keep them almost 1:1. Im usually sitting oncycle @ 600-700mg T and 500 mg Nandrolone, with other compounds and ancillaries depending on the goals of my cycle ofcourse.

Just my 2 cents bro.

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Most who say 2 to 1 ratio

Most who say 2 to 1 ratio myself included are talking to the newbie who's just starting to mess with nandrolone. As far as the experienced guy goes he knows his body and what certain early key indicators of issues arising are and can be on top of it before it becomes a problem. However I'm e2 sensitive and always run mine at about a 2 to 1 ratio and never need caber. If I remeber correctly you use caber twice a week while on 19nors. Do you have to run caber when you run 2 to 1?

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when i run deca/npp @ 500mg+

when i run deca/npp @ 500mg+ ew, i run caber @ 0.5mg twice a week. Thats a total of 1mg of caber per week. With that, my wood is good ( :) ) and no prolactin sides. If my Test goes above 600 mg ew, i need aro 12.5mg twice a week. i guess im somewhat reactive to both prolactin & estro! Never got gyno, but symptoms for me come in the form of serious bloating & water retention. I never let it go to the point of sore nips, ...etc. 

i see your point for new users to do 2:1, but if that new user is estro sensitive, they will be fighting an uphill battle with both prolactin & estro elevation. Remember Test aromatizes, and Nandrolone elevates prolactin. it would be a hard balancing act for a beginner to get dialed in whether its 2:1 or 1:1, same issue.

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You are right about that. I'm

You are right about that. I'm e2 sensitive. I need .5 adex or 12.5 aro eod at 750mg ew test. I had many cycles under my belt and had my ai dialed in before using 19nors. Had I not I could see having issues with prolactin. 

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why not just run your test e

why not just run your test e 2 x a week , mon.nnp/test ,wed just npp.  where you can use a small muscle like delt , and then friday npp/ teste   thats the way i would run it ...so 1 time a week quad    1 time glutes , ..

imo no reason to run test e 3x a week.  

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That's the way id run it as

That's the way id run it as well with test E..... I do like the sust better with NPP. 750 mgs sust and 400 mgs of npp Mon, wed, fri.  Such a great cycle. Throw some var in at the last 5 weeks and its a winner...

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