First 6 cycles

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First 6 cycles

Sitting here knowing what I know now, and experiencing what I've experienced if I could go back in time and do it all over again how and what would my first 6 cycles look like. 

My intention here is to help that new guy not make the same mistakes I made. I often preach that this is a marathon and not a sprint. It has taken many members here years to build the physique they have. All too often we see the new guy here wanting to run tren his first cycle, or dbol only. They'll run test only or test/dbol their first cycle and then want to run a massive advanced cycle. In today's society myself included we often times seek instant gratification. The better way and right way is to be patient and do it right the first time.

This will only be about cycling and not diet nor training. Those two each deserve their own thread. Below I will lay out 6 cycles I would do in order and why I'd do them. Keep in mind I'm a hard gainer and these cycles would be from that perspective. If I were a naturally bigger guy that carried a naturally higher bf% the early cycles would be the same, but there would be some differences as compounds were added.

Cycle #1:

Pre cycle bloodwork

Test e or c at 500mg per week for 12 weeks.

Adex on hand and not used until gyno issues arised

Mid cycle bloods about week 7 and then adex introduced if e2 came back over 50

Standard pct 2 weeks after last test injection. Clomid 100/100/50/50 nolva 40/40/20/20

8 weeks after pct post cycle bloods.

Cycle 1 would contain three separate bloodworks. Pre cycle for a baseline, mid cycle to check my free test, total test, and e2 levels. Post cycle bloods would be to see how well I bounced back from pct. I would also start a cycle log book to jot down how I felt and what sides I had for future reference. 

Cycle #2

Test e or c for 12 weeks at 500mg per week 

Adex introduced week 3 at .5 e3d to eod if it mid cycle bloods in cycle 1 indicated it was needed.

Mid cycle bloodwork

Standard pct.

Cycle 2 would be identical except I would have only had mid cycle bloodwork done. Why? If cycle 1 bloods indicated an ai was needed then at week 3 cycle 2 I would have started adex at week 3 and the cycle 2 bloods would let me know what to do with my dosage. Increase/decrease. Still keeping a log.

Cycle #3:

Test e or c for 12 weeks at 500mg per week

Tbol for 6 weeks at 50 to 60mg ed

Adex introduced at week 3 at the dose my cycle 2 bloods indicated. 

Mid cycle bloods only if you feel you need to dial in your ai some more.

Standard pct.

Cycle 3 will be the same as the first 2 cycles except this time we added a moderate type oral for a kick start and bloods are optional unless you don't quite have your ai dialed in or you're experiencing sides you can't fix.

Cycle #4:

Test e or c for 18 weeks at 600mg per week

EQ for 16 weeks at 600mg per week

Tbol or dbol for 6 weeks at about 50mg ed.

Mid cycle bloods if using dbol because it can easily cause e2 issues or if you're experiencing sides you can't fix.

Mid cycle blood bank donation

Hcg before pct. We have many post about ways to use it.

Post cycle blood bank donation.

Standard pct.

Cycle 4 we would increase the test dose a bit and add a new mild injectable like eq. Typically you don't want to add 2 new compounds, but eq is very slow acting ester and the other compound is rapid oral that any issues with dbol would rise well before the eq kicked in therefore you could easily determine which compound is causing the issue. Hcg to aid in recovery due to the length of cycle.

Cycle #5

Sust for 12 weeks at 750mg per week. 250mg injected m/w/f

Npp for 12 weeks at 300 to 350mg per week injected m/w/f caber on hand for prolactin sides. 

Tbol kickstart at 50mg ed for 6 weeks or an anavar taper the cycles last 6 weeks at 60 to 80mg ed.

Adex introduced at week 3 

Mid cycle bloodwork to check prolactin levels

Blood bank donation mid cycle

Hcg if wanted

Standard pct 21 days after last pin due to esters in sust

Cycle 5 is an introduction into the world of 19nor compounds and with the 3 pins per week will start to get you prepared for the eod or ed pinning of short esters. You could choose to kickstart with a familiar oral or choose to taper with a new oral. Once agin adding 2 new compounds is not an issue as long as you taper with the new compound since npp is a faster acting ester. Mid cycle bloods will be needed since this is the first use of a 19nor. 

Cycle #6

Here there are a multitude of options at your fingertips.

Test p/npp/tbol

Test p/npp/mast p

Test e or c/deca/dbol

Many many possibilities here at cycle 6. What you see here is a slow and methodical approach to learning how to cycle, how my body responds to different compounds, and how to dial in an ai. How, when, and why to get bloodwork. You should always take the same amount of time off once pct stops as you did on cycle. You can also get bloods done sooner, and if they show you fully recovered you can start early, but I'd take the time off anyways.

You'll also notice tren was not in the equation here at all. Tren while a highly sought after compound is an advanced compound. Knowing yourself well and learning how to quickly feel issues arise is paramount. 

In closing hind site is 20/20. If I could go back and do it again this would be what it looked like. Everyone please feel free to share your thoughts on how you would have done things differently, and I hope this will help someone out there.

 

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Nice Bro!! 

Nice Bro!! 

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Tanks Dolf for sharing this

Tanks Dolf for sharing this from your perspective. Very useful for sure. I am positive that this will be very beneficial. +3

 

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This is from my perspective

This is from my perspective on how I'd do it over. There's many ways to skin a cat, but this is how I'd skin it. 

Knowledge is learned through study. Wisdom is given from experience...

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Curiosity.... Why Sust on

Curiosity.... Why Sust on cycle 5? Was is solely selected to accommodate 3pins per week?

 

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Yes. 3 pins per week to prep

Yes. 3 pins per week to prep you for the eod or ed pinning of shorts. 

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Great post

I know I started in this game learning from a gym buddy and tons of bro science, could have benefited from more research and knowledge. Kind of hard on a float in Southeast Asia hearing about the joys of Thai pharmacies and zero patience. When other people I know are thinking of getting into the aas world besides talking them off an oral only cycle I won’t give any advice until they prove they have done sufficient research and plan accordingly 

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Pretty much the same with me.

Pretty much the same with me. I did some research but it was all fucked up. Didn't even know I could get my own bloodwork done. I had an ai on hand, but didn't use it until my second cycle and dbol showed me I was e2 sensitive. Took me 3 more cycles to dial in my ai by feel. Didn't know what caber was. It was a hot mess.

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Good post Dolf. I too wish I

Good post Dolf. I too wish I had more info when I did my first cycle years ago. I had a huge time lapse between my first and my next cycle however I was lucky that someone did give me good advise and do 500 wk of test. Still one of the best cycles to date I presume just because your body is giving you a "hell the fuck yeah" and eating like a horse. My next cycle was a almost a disaster, no idea of combining compounds, no such thing as bloodwork then, and what the hell was caber. That was back in the "No Bull" days. The guy had a lot of great info I can't remember his name now to save me however much has changed since then and a lot of new stuff out there. 

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Thanks BN. 

Thanks BN. 

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If you are on TRT, how long

If you are on TRT, how long would you normally wait from the date of your final pin to the post cycle blood work?

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Hey Brother, If I understand

Hey Brother, If I understand you right then there is no final pin in TRT its a on going protocol.  You might want to research/ask in the brand spanking new TRT forum https://musclegurus.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/trt-forum

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I apologize, I just re read

I apologize, I just re read what I wrote and it doesn't make sense lol. So I meant the final pin of the blast how long should you wait for bloodwork even though you will still be cruising on your trt dose?

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Most TRT clinics will run

Most TRT clinics will run bloods 8 weeks after your first pin and 12 weeks after that. It takes several months to get the combination dialed in for your personal needs. In the majority cases your TRT protocol will be zeroed in in less tha 6 months. Once it's nailed bloods are ran only a few times a year..... unless you are insurance covered. Most insurance companies require blood work more often and have stricter level allowances.

 

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wow DOLF this is super info!!

wow DOLF this is super info!!!!! im gonna make a copy for my personal future cycles.......ive just recently learned that at 37 yrs old now i still dont no shit when info like this is shared with me  bro,,,i did my 1st bottle of old brovel testosrerona 200 when i was 18 and that was a massive wreck.......i tht i had gained all this muscle and you guys already no it was all water retention!!! hahaha thx again for the info and plz dont get mad at me bro i dont even no if brovel is even still a company so i dont think its a source but my bad if so ahead of time.

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With age and experience you

With age and experience you learn. This is how I would personally do it if I had a redo. I'm sure others here would have done it differently as well. My hope is that someone new to aas reads this, and uses it as an example of how to start this journey. Not necessarily exactly the same, but learns to take it slow rather than the typical run of tren and other advanced cycles right off the bat.

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well you can rest assure many

well you can rest assure many will learn from this and we can be certain that this kind of info in most cases isnt free,,,i can remember the 1st real deal bodybuilder that i became great friends with....by real deal i mean he won his class at jr. nationals and plenty of state titles on the way to that win at jr nationals.....but back to the point i was gonna make,,,this guy would charge me 100$ for any advice at all related to aas,diet,supps....i mean anything at all 100$ or no info!!!! thats why we are sooooooo fortunate to have MG and our GURU status leaders to help all the time!!!! so again DOLF thx so very much bro for all your time and endless amount of knowledge you share.

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I was about to DM you with

I was about to DM you with questions and to seek help setting up and preparing my next cycle. I opened the forum and my question was answered for me before I could harass you. Thanks brother  

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Hi all,

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Hi all,

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First, please stay on topic

First, please stay on topic concerning the thread, you're hijacking a meaningful discussion to self promote. Karma has been deducted.

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Dolf, great piece. Most of

Dolf, great piece. Most of you seen me around asking retarded questions. Thankfully without negative returning comments but very thankful knowledgable responses from all of you. Almost a year now and lost 110lbs and steady weekly gym visits. I want to try a cycle. Im stuck on which test to run. I dont want to be pin cuahin either so its either testc or p. My question is whats your preference and at what mg. I've done test c at @400mg for 8 weeks. But thats when i was to unknown education of test, pct and etc. Im thinking of test p @750 a week and maybe throwing another compound in. I want to start march to get bf% to 15. All recommendation are welcomed. Thanks in advance.

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Were you happy with the

Were you happy with the results you were getting from 400? Maybe stretch that out to 12, even 16 weeks maybe. Remember, results don’t necessarily increase correspondingly when raising doses. Most around MG will reccomend “Mastering“ your test only cycles, e2 sensitivity, aI needs and doses etc before adding in additional compounds. A 500mg/wk test only cycle with all bases covered and diet/workout on point can absolutely knock your socks off! BTW, congrats on that weight loss brother, that shows you’re obviously not cutting corners in the dedication department!

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Test p has a 4 day half life

Test p has a 4 day half life which translates to eod or ed pins. My advice is to run 500mg per week of test c or test e for 10 to 12 weeks once you feel you're ready brother.

Excellent job on the weight loss.

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[quote=Dolf]

[quote=Dolf]

Test p has a 4 day half life which translates to eod or ed pins. My advice is to run 500mg per week of test c or test e for 10 to 12 weeks once you feel you're ready brother.

Excellent job on the weight loss.

Thanks would you recommend another compound i could try? 

 

 

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How many cycles do you have

How many cycles do you have under your belt and with what compounds?

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Just TestC, I've decided to

Just TestC, I've decided to follow your #1. The reason ive decided to, is it 100mg higher than my first cycle and i want to get blood work done to see if i react the same. 400mg pre and post blood work was good. I showed no sides besides water retention. 100mg being added might. So thats what ill do for 16wks unless i run into issues and return to trt

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Curiosity and a desire to

Curiosity and a desire to self experiment is very inviting. Those two things make it very difficult to keep things simple. I used Test only at 500mg my first three cycles and found the results more than satisfactory. If we can continue to make positive progress I recommend sticking to simpel cycles until you cannot ignore the draw of other compounds any longer. ;)

 

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X2 with SF.

X2 with SF.

Another round with test c is good imo. Remember what others forget or just simply do not know. Don't rely on the drugs to your primary means of reaching your goal. The drugs are only an aid. Diet and training in that order are what gets you to those goals. Always tell yourself this is a marathon and not a sprint. Even with the aas it takes years to get to where you want to be. 

I'm not gonna blow smoke and tell you this is how I did it because it's not. I was cautious and not reckless but I still put the cart before the horse. Many people in today's society want what they want and want it now. They're not willing to be patient and work hard for it. They'd rather have self gratification. In order to build a physique that is lasting you need a plan, stick to it, and be patient. All to often you see that guy who's a monster on cycle and looks like crap off cycle. That's the instant gratification guy that only dedicates and applies himself when on cycle. He's the one relying on the drugs and not diet and training. Don't be that guy. Be extraordinary; not ordinary! 

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X3......... Its definitely a

X3......... Its definitely a marathon. You have to love every day of this lifestyle.  I have just run my most successful cycle yet and I keep looking forward to getting better and better.. 

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Strong i honestly hated it,

Strong i honestly hated it, but i knew i was killing my self. I have three daughters that are my life. I couldnt keep going down that path. I had to change and quick. I've done it with couragment from family (personal and MG) and friends. I love it now

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For me, There is nothing

For me, There is nothing better than meeting short term goals. As soon as I meet them, I add other goals.  Stay the course..

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Staying on top of your health

Staying on top of your health to make sure your daughters have a daddy for a long time to come is a grest motivator for a grest dad that loves his children. Keep up the good work brotha!

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Yes i loved it, showed no

Yes i loved it, showed no sides besides water retention. I gained around 8lbs of muscle. Post blood was all positive. I didnt even know to have an Ai on hand until SF told me or even what pct was. I owe this group alot thats for sure. Im on trt and since going on test i feel absolutely amazing

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Yes i loved it, showed no

I cant thank Mg enough for the guidance.

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Thats what we’re ALL here for

Thats what we’re ALL here for brother. Those “retarded” questions you were asking are often the ones we learn the most from, even the saltiest vets. 

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Retarded=uneducated 

Retarded=uneducated 

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Diet is on point, just bought

Diet is on point, just bought two weeks worth of eggs,chicken,broccoli,asparagus, lean ground beef,almond milk for my whey and chili with non fat cheese, no diet takin my cheese away lol. My work is having a biggest loser contest for 8 wks. Winner takes home $200 (gear money), my goal is another 40lbs. Show Me da money

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Nice BigDawg...  Dominate

Nice BigDawg...  Dominate that challenge... Attitude gets overlooked in this game.. Your attitude is on point. You cant fail..