Hcg protocols and dosing

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Hcg protocols and dosing

Im not sure if this should be in pct because I don't believe that hcg is pct. You use it before your pct because it stimulates your fsh and lh but still suppresses natural Testosterone production.

I have ran hcg multiple times and different ways so I wanted to share my hcg experiences which will hopefully help some guys out.

The first way to run hcg would be what they call the blast. It is usually run by using 5000iu over the 14 days between your last inj and your pct. You will start it right after last inj using 2500iu then 5 days later inj 1500iu then again 5 days later using 1000iu. This method does help but there are alot of downsides to it. First being that using such high doses of hcg at the end of your cycle will spike your estro alot and can be hard to control and can give you gyno quick. Second even though its stimulating the fsh and lh its a little late because they are already shut down hard so it helps but not as good as the second protocol.

The second protocol which is what I use is the last 8wks up until pct I use 500iu e5d. You will use around 11 shots so around 5500iu. I usually order a 10,000iu kit and use a little under 1000iu e5d thats what works well for me. This protocol still has the downside of the estrogen spikes but is more manageable then the blast. The positive side to running this protocol is controll of estro keeping your balls full and stimulating your fsh and lh over a period of time rather than trying to save it after they have already been crushed. Your fsh and lh come back easier during pct because you have kept them from just crashing. This is definitely the way to go in my opinion.

The third protocol which I advise against it was very stupid for me to even try and I had to stop because of a gyno scare. You would start right at the beginning of your cycle and use 500iu to 1000iu e5d for your entire cycle. I just want to say that this is not what you want to do. First thing wrong is over stimulation. Second is estro will be like a roller coaster which will make you feel shitty and lathergic.

Hcg is great for helping with recovery but with every compound we take there are positive results and negative side effects. If anyone has any questions about hcg I have alot of real life experience and can answer almost anything about it. I hope that this post will help some guys out. If anyone has anything to add i would like to hear it.

Thanks brothers 

Bigmurph 

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Thanks for sharing your

Thanks for sharing your experiences brother. There certainly is a lot of debate concerning HCG usage and you will find many different opinions. 

I have been on HCG 1000iu/wk for over four years and I run it full time on cycle without issues strictly for aesthetic purposes. Your third protocol experience is an individual experience and is not common to the majority of individuals. HCG is known to cause your issue in cases where the individual is E2 sensitive. Using a properly dosed AI will prevent any issues in the majority of cases.

Could you please explain to us the idea of "over stimulation" at 1000iu/wk full time? If you have any supporting scientific documentation that would be great as well. Thanks is advance. The reason I ask is that many TRT patience are on HCG full time over many years. Since steroid use suppresses natural testosterone production and knowing the doses of HCG that are needed to provide significant increases in natural production from scientific studies I am having a hard time grasping the idea of over stimulation.

 

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When I was saying

When I was saying overstimulation I was talking about receptors getting burnt out and the effects diminishing.

You have been running 1000iu for 4yrs!!

Yeah that goes against my experience because I have trouble controlling estro on hcg. I use aromasin and Proviron and sometimes I get above my comfort zone of 50 to 70 on bloods.

I have known about trt patients using hcg every week but I thought the doses were alot lighter like 250iu then after time when bloods show its time to up the doses I figured it might go to 500iu. I haven't started trt I still have around 5yrs before that. Im really like being here your guys answers are making me open my eyes and look at things differently than I have for years.

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bigmurph wrote:

bigmurph wrote:

When I was saying overstimulation I was talking about receptors getting burnt out and the effects diminishing.

Your body is always producing new receptors so I think this must be bro-science that you have read because there is no scientific basis for receptor burn out with HCG usage.

Could it happen? If it did than wouldn't it be true concerning LH sense they bind to the same receptors? Without scientific evidence I would disregard the thought process of receptor burn out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_receptor

 

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You're completely right about

You're completely right about it being bro science. I get it from just the thought of almost all other compounds burning out receptors after long time use.

Do you believe that your receptors for Testosterone burn out also. Or do you think that this isn't also true?

I get that thinking from running a pct and taking a break from running for basically the time you cycled plus pct. So usually around 21wks. I always believed that we did this 1 to take a break and not fry our endocrine system 2 to actually give your receptors time to recover from the barrage of hormones.

 That link is interesting it says that water soluble peps like hcg don't bind to a receptor but a cellular membrane. I also read that retinoids or accutane also bind to the same receptors as steroids. Interesting read learned 2 new things.

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I know many that cycle

I know many that cycle regularly have to use larger dosage or take longer breaks between cycles to receive the same PERCEIVED benefits from previous steroid cycles. I certainly never have personally experienced this but some of my buddies have. 

It has to be a possibility but without more scientific research the actual reason that it happens is all guess work.

Concerning a barrage of hormones - This is happening every second of every day within the endocrine system whether you are using steroids or not. ;)

You are correct- most will recommend time off should equal time on + PCT.

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So when a heroin addict is

So when a heroin addict is using a large amount of herion after many years of usage, and then goes to rehab, and gets clean. Then they relapse and o.d. when they use the same amount as before going to rehab that's not proof of plugged receptors? 

I sat down with my cousin who's 3 years deep into med school, and she seemed to believe receptors become plugged thus reducing sensitivity. She used the above anology. She seemed to believe that while receptors do regenerate they do so at a much slower pace while still using something, as opposed to ceasing use of whatever you're using.

 

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This was great argument when

This was great argument when you originally posted it and it makes perfect sense.

The endocrine system is way to complex for me to even try to understand. Even a third year med student has to make an educated guess. In the end I can only go by what I know and have experienced.

 

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After my vacation my

After my vacation my experiment commences... 

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Mine begins this summer...  I

Mine begins this summer...  I am working on a 'less is more' personal project. 

Do you have your Speedo picked out yet?

 

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An addition

The notion of tolerance or the need for more of a substance to get the effect of course is quite intriguing. Why do we need more? Well, one idea is that when the body is receiving an overload of almost any substance, and target receptors being the doorway for substances into cells to activate the cell, the body may down-regulate receptor production in the interest of homeostasis. In other words, the body either decreases or ceases the production of receptors. So appears that colloquially speaking, receptors get "plugged". It's more like the production facility (dna to rna to ribosome) gets halted, or "plugged" as it were. Here is a wkil page to support the hypothesis:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downregulation_and_upregulation

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That's exactly what my cousin

That's exactly what my cousin told me...the body always trys to maintain homeostasis. 

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And that's why we have take

And that's why we have take so much crap to adjust our systems for the high exogenous doses of aas compared to what our bodies would do otherwise. In a sense, we play god when doing this stuff. Adding these deleting that. Pretty cool being human being able to at least make an attempt to be supra natural. Life is fun when taking a head on interest in the subtle workings of nature. Are we making it better? Who knows, but it sure it fucking fun :)

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Good information Blast!

Good information Blast!

 

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bigmurph wrote:

bigmurph wrote:

 That link is interesting it says that water soluble peps like hcg don't bind to a receptor but a cellular membrane. I also read that retinoids or accutane also bind to the same receptors as steroids. Interesting read learned 2 new things.

 

LH and HCG bind to the luteinizing hormone-chorionic gonadotropin receptor (LHCGR). Cellular membranes contain receptors. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_surface_receptor

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Brother i love this im

Brother i love this im getting schooled here.

You definitely know your shit and back it up with links. You're a solid member i know who im coming to if I need some advice.

Hell yeah +1

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I run same protocol as

I run same protocol as siempre 1000iu per week split dose  while trying to make a baby I took 3000iu per week and he is correct it does effect my estrogen but i am an estrogen factory  I had to use an ai to keep it in check  at such a high dose  have not had it checked on this lower dose  with  a minimal ai 

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Here you go new Papa...

Here you go new Papa...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2347086

 

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Sure is refreshing when an

Sure is refreshing when an article is easy to read and understand :)

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lol

lol

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Thats a solid link +1

Thats a solid link +1

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Yeah I always have high estro

Yeah I always have high estro as soon as I use hcg

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Like SF, I've been using HCG

Like SF, I've been using HCG consistently for just about 2 years at 500 iu per week with no negative side effects related to E2 problems. I know that I am not E2 sensitive, and perhaps those who are, may want to reconsider using HCG under the protocol listed in #3.

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You to are lucky I can take

You to are lucky I can take Proviron on a basic test cycle and my estro stays fine no problems. Once I start hcg my estro goes crazy.

This truly proves when it comes to estro everyone is different.

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That makes it really

That makes it really difficult to give solid state advice. We can generalize to a degree on many things, but at the end of the day all users MUST know their own bodies, and blood work is not a corner to be cut in this game. Likely end all messed up if one isn't tuned in to their inner workings.

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Bloods are key to running a

Bloods are key to running a proper cycle to many skip this step but you really need to know where you are at or you're just guessing and thats how gyno and other bad things happen.

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Want to say that I was

Want to say that I was administering 500 in weekly of HCG. Had blood work done during that time and E2 was 23. I was taking adex now and again as well as I was also pinning 250 test e per week.

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This is worth noting... There

This is worth noting... There is a concept out there that states the Leydig Cells in the testes become desensitized with OVER/HYPER stimulation, the Temporary effect of it is low/no response to LH and HCG stimulation, hence no/low Testosterone production related to that stumlation. The long term effect which is permanent damage to the Leydig cells which will cause you to be completely unresponsive to LH and HCG, and hence you will depend on Exogenous T for the rest of your life. I am personally not sure if the permanent effect is valid theory or not, but i would say when it comes to using HCG to stimulate your natty T production, More is not always better. Hence i personally stay in the 500-700 iu ew on cycle & off cycle and NO MORE. Only time i pass this boundary is the 2-3 weeks of 1500 ius ew following a cycle to jolt/shock the system then week 4 back to normal dose no more than 700 iu ew.

Do some research on this, you'll see the theories out there. Another theory is the body building antibodies against HCG with elevated dosages hence causing the unresponsiveness to elevated doses. Feel free to add in more based on your personal experience/research. This issue is VERY interesting!

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I agree with this 100% +1

I agree with this 100%

+1

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Cosmetic reasons

i would guess that if one is going trt for life, the natural test kick from HCG isn't an issue, but, will the testes still retain size once the body becomes tolerant or rather resistant to HCG? Another thing to look into I suppose. Never ending Sam, always something interesting to deal with. Durned near a full time job with diet, training, researching and applying the knowledge. Wish I could retire and just do this!

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if your testes are responding

if your testes arent responding, they arent producing T, they will shrink.

You hit the nail on the head, between diet, training, supplements, aas, researching, and timing all that properly, its more than a full time job. i look at my buddies who dont work out, and their lives are SOOO MUCH simpler bro. Simpler aint better though, so i would never consider dropping this lifestyle, my only option is to MAKE MORE TIME FOR IT! So im on the same train you're on , need to retire early and do this full time!

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The proof, then, is in the

The proof, then, is in the puddin'! If they're hangin, they're workin, and if they aren't and you're using HCG either the HCG is fake or underdosed, or your balls aren't responding thus resistant... maybe lol

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lol yes, i've had my balls

lol yes, i've had my balls shrink before oncycle no HCG and high Test, shut me down good, its v uncomfortable and feels unnatural. Thats why i always keep on the HCG on-cycle.

 

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I've never compared my ball

I've never compared my ball size to another man, but the wife tells me I have the biggest balls she's ever seen, and when on cycle and shrunk they're the size of a normal pair of balls. Guess I'll need to hit the hcg before my beach vacation to fill those speedo's up nice and full. Lol

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haha ! Supersize it bro, just

haha ! Supersize it bro, just like your fav fast food joint!

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When you're a grower and not

When you're a grower and not a shower you gotta do something! Maybe do like burrr and drop a potato down there lmao

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Dolf wrote:

Dolf wrote:

When you're a grower and not a shower you gotta do something! Maybe do like burrr and drop a potato down there lmao

Just make sure you drop it down the front of your speedo. :)
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Video of acdc-big balls

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ROTFLMAO

I'm dead!

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everything, every interest

everything, every interest must have a balance

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Striking the balance between

Striking the balance between the size of ones testes and the related appendage is often an undertaking well worth the small fee for HCG and some slin pins lol

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damn I love this site

This post and it's follow up comments are evidence that MG is the best review and info site out there. Different opinions were expressed, backed by experience and facts and no one got but hurt or personally attacked the op no matter what was posted. I am a reader, I am on here every day reading.... current posts, old posts, reviews, and although I do not comment often, I always gain something from this site.  I was taught at a very early age "IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING USEFUL TO SAY, SIT BACK AND LISTEN.... YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING!" Well I am learning lots of useful, practical, helpful things on this site. Thank you all for what You make MUSCLEGURUS!

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This forum is so much better

This forum is so much better than the one I came from. Like you said there is no bashing just conversation the way it should be.

Mg provides a solid platform for truly learning.

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bigmurph

We strive to have a family atmosphere here...we are not perfect by far, but we strive for excellence nonetheless! Never had i been on a forum--especially as a Woman--and got the respect and dignity that i received here from day 1. I have called this place home ever since! 

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While I have yet to try HCG

Well said Calm! +1! While I have yet to try HCG on my test cycle, I will be using 500 IU'S a week for 2 weeks and then bump it up to 1000 IU'S for the remainder of my cycle. I'm barely into week 1 of Test Cyp at 600 mgs split into twice a week. I will start the HCG at week #3.