HCG usage

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HCG usage
  • Hoping every is familiar with what HCG is and the importance of it presence when cycling. Have been seeing a lot of cycles where HCG isn't even mentioned. This little piece below is a good short read that is most informative. The actual dosages will need to be taylored. A good baseline is 500ui/week so 250ui twice a week is what most do.
  • If your boys continue to shrink, you can up the dosage or frequency. HCG, or Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin, is a peptide hormone which can be useful to bodybuilders who suffer from testicular atrophy whilst on cycle. It was once commonly used during PCT in the belief it will aid testosterone restoration, however this is flawed due to its mechanism action. The drug mimics the effects of LH in the body, stimulating the Leydig cells to produce testosterone in the testes. This can be fruitful in rectify existing, or avoiding testicular atrophy on cycle.
  • It will not aid the process of recovery in the post cycle phrase however, as the drug will bring about heightened oestrogen levels due to the greater aromatising of the testosterone being produced in the testes, thus bringing about greater inhibition of the HPTA. It is therefore wise to use HCG for rectify existing, or avoiding testicular atrophy on cycle, and possibly prior to PCT to help bring the testes back up to condition so they are more effective at producing testosterone.
  • We should leave about a week prior to PCT, with any HCG administration occurring before this. It is wise to use HCG in smaller frequent amounts over the course of two weeks to help minimise side effects and give more fruitful results. This is usually accompanied by nolvadex at 20-40mg each day to avoid oestrogen related side effects becoming pronounced due to the greater aromatisation occurring. 500-1000IU over a two week period should prove effective interms of results and minimising oestrogen related side effects.

                                                                              The "When to use"  Debate

This is one of the most debatable topics I have ever seen with both sides standing their ground for what they believe. I am a firm believer of PREVENTION and with that being said, I present my case as to why HCG is better ran during a cycle rather then after. Everyone’s opinion should be used for research purposes and hopefully help you make your own decision for a HCG protocol. I am not here to start a debate and I certainly respect everyone’s input, I am merely contributing to this forum with my opinion. I do however see logic on both sides, but still feel that the benefits in running HCG during a cycle out weigh running it post cycle. And here’s why:

 I will present a few known facts to hopefully shed some light on those who may be uncertain when to run HCG.

Luteinizing hormone (LH) is a hormone produced by the anterior pituitary gland. In females, an increase of LH triggers ovulation where as in men an increase in LH stimulates the production of testosterone (T). For this discussion, we shall reference LH levels in men. When T levels increase, it creates a negative feedback loop and inhibits the release of LH. So more T = less LH = less T production.

Testosterone must first aromatize into estrogen before it can inhibit the release of LH. This further dramatized the need to keep your E2 in check not only for visible related sides like bloat & acne, but for hidden reasons such as hogging free-T, LH suppression, and fluctuation SHGB values to name a few. This is another topic which can be researched in the forums. (Or Keyword estrogen)

 FACTS

1-    LH stimulates the production of testosterone. Therefore, High T levels = low LH levels = low T production.

2-HCG is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.

3- HCG helps to PREVENT testicular non-responsiveness or atrophy. Atrophy is the wasting away of a body part and that definition doesn’t sound to comforting to me. So the keyword here is PREVENT which we will tie in later in this discussion.

 4- The longer the cycle, the greater chance testicular atrophy will occur.

 So here’s the million dollar question. Why would you allow your testes to atrophy by electing NOT to run HCG during a cycle ? IMO

PREVENTION is and would much rather avoid this from occurring rather then having to deal with correction it at cycle end. Plus, when used as PCT, HCG suppressed the recovery of LH production. Sure you are “Kick starting” your T production but what about your natural LH production? You are further stuffing its recovery down a few more weeks. I would rather leave the “Kick Starting” to the SERMS and let them do their job. Remember, Serms like clomid and nova have the ability to stimulate the release of LH thus initiating the production of testosterone. It’s how they work and why they are used for PCT purposes. (Also use during cycles, but that’s another forum)

 Now on the flip side yes I would use HCG at the start of PCT if for some reason or the other atrophy has occurred during my cycle. When entering recovery mode you want to be playing with a full deck and that translates to plum healthy testicles that are ready to start doing their job again.

So in conclusion, utilizing HCG during a steroid cycle will significantly prevent atrophy thus avoiding the post cycle crash period.

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Great info bro thanks for

Great info bro thanks for posting ,

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Milkin question ,, here bro,

Milkin like,, wouldnt run without it anymore ,,had the boy problems also, :( ,,no more ,sucks waking up in the morning ,,thinking the boys got kidnapped,, or when the better half,, wants to visit the boys,, and there not home lol been there ..its a must

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I hate to bump such an old

I hate to bump such an old topic but this hs helped out in my search for hcg info leading into this next cycle..  Ive never run hcg but will be using it this run and leaning more towards also running hcg throughout my cycle.. My cycle will be 18 weeks long and have seen a study where it is best to inject 1 hcg injection of 500-1000ius per week as opposed to 2-3 throughout the week. Wondering if anyone has also heard of this and validity to it?

Some guys prefer to blast it at the end of a cycle but it makes sense to me to keep the balls working throughout the cycle as well and plan to run it throughout my cycle but wondering if 500iu will be enough per week..  What's everyone's take on hcg?? 

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Yeah 500 is good, might as

Yeah 500 is good, might as well just pin it twice a week tho. Maybe same days as your long esters. I would say it wouldn't be needed until about week 4 if running long esters... unless you are kickstarting with prop then I would say week 2 or 3 would be good to start. 

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Thanks for bumping this Bash,

Thanks for bumping this Bash, it's a great read. I've been thinking about the same thing, that is of starting it early in the cycle and maybe running into the first week of PCT and that's it.

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So does hcg simply fix your

So does hcg simply fix your testicles appearance  while on cycle or does it actually make them produce sperm even in the presence of testosterone  

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In my experience

I would say it most definitely increases the volume a of semen quite a bit,  not sure about the production of sperm but you would think that goes hand in hand... maybe I should word that different lol nah.  

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I found the forum I found

I found the forum I found this from.  It's a long read but I'll copy/paste the part I was referring to:

uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/54401-hcg-mixing-storing-dosing/

From my latest research (taken from a recent article by the Endocrinology Society) i am now using and advocating the protocol of 1000iu injected once weekly.

 

Here is the science behind this protocol:

An in vivo injection or an episode of LH secretion induced by GnRH, results in stimulation of the side-chain cleavage enzyme with the subsequent release of testosterone within 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation. The acute response to an injection of LH is dramatic in some species such as the rat and the ram but is much more attenuated in the human. This testosterone response lasts approximately 24-48 hours. If human chorionic gonadotrophin is used as an LH substitute, the kinetics of the initial stimulation are similar to LH but a second peak of testosterone secretion is evidence with hCG and occurs 48-72 hours after the initial injection. This biphasic pattern has been attributed to the observation that between 24 and 48 hours after an LH or hCG injection, the Leydig cells are refractory to further stimulation by either hormone. The second phase of testosterone secretion after hCG but not LH is associated with the longer half-life of hCG in comparison to LH. The hCG levels persist in the circulation and, following recovery from the refractoriness, testosterone levels increase. This observation has significant clinical importance since, in many men, a single weekly injection of hCG will suffice to maintain optimum testosterone responses rather than the frequent practice of giving injections of hCG two to three times per week.

 

The stimulation of leydig cells with large amounts of hCG rapidly reduces their number of receptors, this phenemenom is termed down-regulation.

Although these changes decrease testosterone levels to just above diurnal maxima 24-48hrs after initial injection repeated stimulation does not yield the same results.

A single injection of hCG is followed by a long steroidogenic response characterized by two phases of testosterone secretion.

Studies show that this second phase which can last as long as 8 days can increase testosterone in plasma by 2.2 x above maximal diurnal secretion even though hCG is no longer present in plasma.

The results indicate that hCG injections can be given every 6-7 days due to the prolonged steroidogenic response.

It is advisable to start this protocol around week 2-3 in the cycle and continue till the start of PCT.

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Excellent bump! Too many

Excellent bump! Too many people seem to feel as though HCG on cycle is optional. I personally feel as though it should be run on every cycle. It seems to make that transition to PCT much smoother.

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would hcg still be benificial

would hcg still be benificial to those of us who are on trt while actually on a cycle ?

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Yes I run HCG at least 4

Yes I run HCG at least 4 times a year . To me it really balances me out .

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Good post Nytex. I think too

Good post Nytex. I think too many people underestimate the importance of HCG whether they're cycling or on TRT. HCG really need to be implemented whenever exogenous T is being used for extended periods of time.

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Great Post !! Very useful

Great Post !! Very useful info

When on-cycle, HCG is a staple for me. As a matter of fact, i wouldnt start the cycle until i have HCG in hand. Wouldnt want to start cycle, and have any dissapointments acquiring hcg.

I've been on TRT for about 5 years, but when im on-cycle, i am basically on-cycle :)  When im done w/ cycle 12, 16 or 20 weeks , i do a period of intensified PCT for about 2-4 weeks, then straight into TRT regimen which is therapeutic doses.

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Great Post !! Very useful

Great Post !! Very useful info

When on-cycle, HCG is a staple for me. As a matter of fact, i wouldnt start the cycle until i have HCG in hand. Wouldnt want to start cycle, and have any dissapointments acquiring hcg.

I've been on TRT for about 5 years, but when im on-cycle, i am basically on-cycle :)  When im done w/ cycle 12, 16 or 20 weeks , i do a period of intensified PCT for about 2-4 weeks, then straight into TRT regimen which is therapeutic doses.

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Good Stuff

I run HCG through my entire cycle too. I've ran a cruise for a couple months to finish off some Winny and decreased frequency and amount, but still hit some HCG, it really helps recovery IMO. Like milkin said though, I use it for prevention. I am not going to wait until I'm crashing my truck to snap a seatbelt on.  I put it on before i head out.

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I will prob use hcg the rest

I will prob use hcg the rest of my life been on it for six months now at 1000 iu eod and it has made my Boys drop like it was hot. Sperm count went from 300,000 with none none moving to 20 million with 5 million moving so it works for sure I don't imagibe such a high dose is needed  for replacement therapy  this proocol is super aggressive for fertility  this is with my trt shot every week so that would leave me to believe that it is also benificial on cycle  I went to 1000 iu Ed for a week before my last fertility test to see if more is better  it made me super horney I can tell you that much 

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outlaw - you must have been

outlaw - you must have been humping the walls and anything that moved! LOL 

When i do 800 iu per week split into two 400 iu shots, im horny as F*&king hell !!! I can imagine 1000 iu DAILY !? ill prob drop dead with a hard on that wont go away LOL!

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bump

Good read.. too bad most are sold in 5000 iu instead of smaller amps.. I saw some 1500iu amps.. still not sure if I would want to use 1500iu or keep the rest for the next dose

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I like to get 10,000 iu and

I like to get 10,000 iu and reconsitute. It's hella cheap, and u can use it throughout a cycle. Keep dem ballz from shrinkin

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Totally agree.

Totally agree.

I never run a cycle without hcg even at minimal dosages just to keep the boys pumping ,hence not complete HPTA shutdown, just partial (The LH & FH suppression will happen but NOT the balls). Hence if you run a lab on cycle , you'll see the LH and FSH are down to < 1 , zero point something = complete suppression. Which is find during the cycle.

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I'm just now starting on HCG

I'm just now starting on HCG since I'll be on TRT for the rest of my life, and I'm starting out low and slow with 250 IUs 2x weekly to see if it improves my testicle size any (I already have shrinkage going on from the T that I'm taking) and I'm gonna give it about 3 weeks to a month to see if 500 IUs a week is enough for my junk and if not I'll go up from there and up it to 250 IUs EOD since I'll have plenty of it to last me for the next 6-9 months.  I ordered some from two different sources, using bacteriostatic water, and keeping it stored in the fridge in an amber vial and not storing it in the door of the refrigerator so that I don't end up destroying a lot of the peptide by opening the door all of the time.  I keep the vial sealed up inside of a larger pill bottle as well just to make sure that it stays nice and comfy inside of the fridge.  I used 8mls of bacteriostatic water so that 0.4ccs of HCG equals 250 IUs and if need be will up it to 0.4ccs EOD to get my boys back to normal size.

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bmurphr1 wrote:

bmurphr1 wrote:

I'm just now starting on HCG since I'll be on TRT for the rest of my life, and I'm starting out low and slow with 250 IUs 2x weekly to see if it improves my testicle size any (I already have shrinkage going on from the T that I'm taking) and I'm gonna give it about 3 weeks to a month to see if 500 IUs a week is enough for my junk and if not I'll go up from there and up it to 250 IUs EOD since I'll have plenty of it to last me for the next 6-9 months.  I ordered some from two different sources, using bacteriostatic water, and keeping it stored in the fridge in an amber vial and not storing it in the door of the refrigerator so that I don't end up destroying a lot of the peptide by opening the door all of the time.  I keep the vial sealed up inside of a larger pill bottle as well just to make sure that it stays nice and comfy inside of the fridge.  I used 8mls of bacteriostatic water so that 0.4ccs of HCG equals 250 IUs and if need be will up it to 0.4ccs EOD to get my boys back to normal size.

I dose my hcg at 250 iu per week while on trt.

I'm liking that dose and have m as maintained test size just fine. 

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Been reading all morning

Been reading all morning about HCG ... I think I am going to pick some up as soon as I find a good source.  In week 11 of test e only cycle at the moment and my boys have shrunk considerably ... I didn't initially plan on adding HCG to this cycle but after all the reading I have done and the way the boys look at the moment I plan to get some going as soon as possible.   Great information here as usual on MG. 

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Its inexpensive and a great

Its inexpensive and a great option to mitigate testicular atrophy. Certainly one of the peptides that does what it says it does. 

Just don't buy into the HCG diet BS. Desperate people grasp for desperate things! ;)

SEMPER FI

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primary hypogonadism

I was recently doing some research on HCG in order to clear up a question i had regarding its use. I read that HCG will have little or no effect in males with primary hypogonadism/testicular atrophy. This is because men who suffer such condition have very few if any leydig cells for which LH to activate. The article stated that HCG administration only works on males with secondary hypogonadism (especially younger males, as leydig cells allegedly diminish as males age), for example due to super-physiological aas use.

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I am going to be running

I am running 300mg Test E twice weekly for 3 months. I have my AI and SERMS for PCT. However, with all the research I've been doing on HCG I decided that I  am going to pick some up. I was wondering if I purchase HCG Pregnyl 5000iu how much should I take weekly? Is it administered the same way as Test E (I'm pinning in my glutes)? And one last question I have is this ... I read a lot of people that run HCG while on cycle and this is what I plan on doing .... when should I stop the HCG? After my last pin? Before SERM?

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500 iu split i to two doses

500 iu split i to two doses twice weekly. Subq injection in that bit of belly fat is fine. Do not continue during pct. I think everything you need to know is up there in the thread in the bullet points. Anyhow, discontinue hcg one week before pct...

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X2 & +2 blast 

X2 & +2 blast 

Hcg can be pinned IM or sub q. Sub q is easier and better because the body will absorb more hcg.

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Do you have a recommendation

Do you have a recommendation for the syringe used for the subq injection?

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blastthru23 wrote:

blastthru23 wrote:

500 iu split i to two doses twice weekly

Okay so 1000 iu per week ... total of 4 pins? Sorry for the confusion, but I really appreciate the response.

 

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Sorry, 500iu per week (for

Sorry, 500iu per week (for example, 250 on monday, 250 on Thursday)

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1cc, 1/2", 29g is good

1cc, 1/2", 29g is good. Get a few 10 packs at the local pharmacy. Sometimes they fuck up and give u a 5/16" pin. Hate that shit. Double check.

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Btw. You'll need some bac

Btw. You'll need some bac water, a sterile 10ml vial, and one 23g sharp and one 23g mixing syringe. 3ml barrel is fine. Just do the math when mixing. Don't use the solution that comes with the hcg.

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Thanks much. I really

Thanks much. I really appreciate the info. So I'll want to mix the bac water and the iu dosage together and pin that mixture, correct? Any references on where to purchase the 10ml vial and bac water?

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No. Mix the contents of vial

No. Mix the contents of vial containing hcg with bac water, about 2ml. Hmmm, there's youtube vids on how to mix. A picture is worth a thousand words

Also, google bacteriostatic water for sale or whatever. Typically, the place that sells the water also has sterile sealed 10ml vials. I bought a bunch some time ago, and don't recall where from.

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Check out this sticky about
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Thanks for the reminder.

Thanks for the reminder. Aptly favorited for future reference 

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I’ve never used HCG yet. I’ve

I’ve never used HCG yet. I’ve read a lot as to the ways it helps pct & even keeping gains. The main reason is just being unsure of reconstituting & best time to add it in. There’s much controversy over whither you go all cycle or right before end of cycle or only at pct. Many days unless you have teste atrophy, there’s no reason to use. Give me some solid advice from your experiences please. :)