First Tren Cycle

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First Tren Cycle

Hey guys, I’ve been cruising for awhile making some good gains and I’m getting ready to do my next cycle. I took Semper Fi’s advice and got several more cycles under my belt and more experience before taking Tren. So, I’m ready to hop on the Tren train now and I would love everyone‘s advice. I‘m 215 lbs and have some mass on me, but not bad. My goal is not to get crazy lean, but rather to clean bulk and tone up what I have plus add more clean mass. I’ve done my research for the last 2 years very thoroughly. I should also state that my body tends to respond amazingly well to low doses. I gained nothing running a gram of test over running 500mg except for all the sides. So my plan is to Test E 250mg/week, 300mg/week Tren. I’m going to start with Ace because I know that’s the responsibleg thing to do to see how my body handles it and then switch over to E if all goes well for the less frequent pinning and since I’m using it more for bulking than cutting anyway. Plus that way I can just stay on my cruise of Test E as well. If you guys have any advice on how to tweak things to help get the most out of my cycle or see any flaws with my logic please let me know. I also would like some advice on rep and set ranges to get maximum growth on cycle as well. I’m more concerned with maximum size and muscle mass, not strength. Thanks guys. 

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The summer is a tough(er)

The summer is a tough(er) time to start a tren cycle because of the night sweats that many of us get. The summer heat seems to make it worse.

Training recommendations is really a tough question to nail down because there are so many opinions and effective way to place the muscle into overload. At your age I was still focused on the major compound strength exercises and finishing with the isolation exercises. I stayed there as long as my body was healthy enough to handle the progressive increases in weight. I have learned to not overthink my training, trying to find the most effective method because the reality is that all resistance training is effective in producing new muscle growth as long as you put in the time and remain consistent.

Knowing what I know now I would be putting the majority of my efforts into eating the right foods in the sufficient number of calories to enhance muscle growth. 

 

SEMPER FI

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Thanks so much Semper Fi, I

Thanks so much Semper Fi, I really appreciate the words of wisdom. I will try to do that, I know I am guilty of trying to overthink my workouts. I am definitely going to put a lot of emphasis on my nutrition and intake. As far as the dosages I payed out, do you think that is a good first Tren cycle setup?

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I honesty can't say if it is

I honesty can't say if it is good or bad. What concerns me is that you say you have been cruising for awhile. At 28 and not looking to compete any time soon I would be more concerned about natural recovery. Cruising is not going to allow that. Permanent shutdown is not something I would risk if I was in your position. If you were 'off' for a period of time this might be a good first Tren cycle but the fact that you have been cruising I am not positive that the addition of the tren is going to produce the results that you are looking for. Your commitment to diet and training is going to be the ultimate determining factor.

Its all a self experiment buddy and at the low doses you are not going to see any huge issues with sides. Just be aware that tren is one of the 'bad boys' concerning sides and if it doesn't work out for you kick it to the curb because an unenjoyable cycle is just not worth it.

My experience with tren is limited but I think there are better options for a clean bulk cycle other than tren. I definitely can understand the allure to it. Sometimes we choose to do things just to 'see' what it can do and that is cool. Hopefully some other members pipe in so you have different views. JD has good experience with tren and I am sure he will drop in with his personal insight.

 

SEMPER FI

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Thanks brother I really

Thanks brother I really appreciate the honesty and input and definitely take it to heart. I’m sorry, I should have explained the cruising comment. I have pretty much accepted I will be on TRT the rest of my life, even at 28 years old. Low T runs bad in my family. My dad, my brother at age 27, and my uncle all had to go on TRT. My levels were high enough the dr wouldn’t put me on it, but before I started T I was so weak and tired I could literally barely get through a workout and 135 lbs felt heavy on bench. Walking up a hill would exhaust me. So I made the call for myself that for quality of life I was putting myself onTRT. 

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You seem to have a pretty

You seem to have a pretty good grasp of things. Man, the thing with tren is that it is SO subjective. You could take a hundred people and give them the exact same dose of tren and you’re going to have one hundred different sets of results. You’re a big boy, and I absolutely adore tren, so I’m not going to try to talk you out of it in any way. I’ve danced with the tren demon multiple times and I still havent gotten it perfected. First thing I would reccomend it not to get crazy with your test. Basically, the only thing you’re using test for on tren is to counteract the shutdown you’re going to experience. Tren shuts you down super hard. More test isn’t going to bulk you up or give you more lean mass (in my experience). Let the Tren work it’s magic. Tren absolutely dominates your androgen receptors and the extra test is either going to be wasted or converted into estrogen. On the flipside to that, when parabolan is given to cattle to bulk up, estrogen Is also given, suggesting that the compound in that respect is more effective when used in combination with an aromatizing compound as well (but that’s the fine line). MUST have legit ai on hand, i never have prolactin issues if I keep my e2 under control. You always hear about tren gyno. Ive known more than one person that has gotten lumps and blame it on the tren, but every time it’s after getting cocky and pushing the test dose. More good food is much better than more test. I keep it at 250/wk. Also one of the things that has made tren MUCH smoother for me is a daily injection schedule. 50mg/day has always been the sweet spot for me. Trust me, you would rather deal with daily injections than the rise and fall of your hormone levels. I get anxiety, worse sweating, headaches, lethargy etc if I’m not pinning daily. You’ll get used to it. Not sure what your temperament is, but if you’re naturally aggressive, jealous, anxious, have trouble sleeping or any of that type of stuff tren can be a hell of a ride. Basically, you’ll most likely either hate it or love it. I could drink the shit, but I have really low sides 99% of the time. I ALWAYS run conservative doses in every cycle. Tren dries me out bigtime, joint pain is probably my biggest Problem on it. I’ve even gotten to the point now to where I add in around 125mg of deca per week to keep a little bit of fluid in my joints. Not recommending that in ANY way for you, as tren and deca are both 19-nor’s, and that’s a whole other set of potential problems. Just using it as an example. It’s hard to think of everything to try to cram into one reply, but if you have any questions, please feel free to hit me up anytime. Don’t rush, make sure all your bases are covered and you’ll be setting yourself up for success. 

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Also, it is a common belief

Also, it is a commonly thought of as a “fat burner”. It does affect the body in a couple of different ways that can compliment fat loss, but I have found it more helpful to think of it as more of a nutrient partitioning agent. You’re not automatically going to get super lean just because you start tren. One of the things I love the most about it is you can see almost immediate results from small tweaks you make in your diet because of the method of action. 

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E2

What are some ways to “keep my E2 under control”? What I mean is, what are some elements of that, aside from the obvious arimidex?

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Tren has a whole different

Tren has a whole different set of rules as your balance can get out of control quick being that it is going to dominate your receptors a lot stronger, leaving you with a lot more potential for conversion. I have always preferred aromasin (exemistane) over arimidex in that it is a “suicide inhibitor“. It is basically killing your aromatase as opposed to blocking it. You have to watch it though because if you take it like arimidex, you can crash your e2 easy, that’s no bueno either. Best way to control your e on tren is to go low on your test until you get a baring on how your body reacts. Feel free to bump it if you can get away with it. 

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Aromasin&arimidex&Letro are

Aromasin&arimidex&Letro are your AI’s.Aromasin is stronger than arimidex, Letro is stronger than aromasin and best used for gyno since it’s so strong, these control your aromatase enzyme conversion. Nolvadex&Clomid are SERMS, those are used during pct, they don’t prevent conversion to estrogen, they just block your estrogen receptors. 

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TECHNICALS FOR REFERENCE-

TECHNICALS FOR REFERENCE-

Arimidex and Letrozole are Class II AI's which work by competitive inhibition of aromatase. Aromasin is a Class I AI and works by binding aromatase permanently (suicide).

 

SEMPER FI

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much better put. I was tired

much better put. I was tired of typing but wanted to give wonderboy a quick starting point on E2 control. I actually wasnt aware of the “classes”

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Thanks so much for taking the

Thanks so much for taking the time to write all that out for me and for the info broher! I really appreciate it! It definitely sounds like you’ve got a lot of experience with Tren. 

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I consider myself to tolerate

I consider myself to tolerate tren better than most, and even I get extremely lethargic as my levels reach peak. Usually only lasts three or four days. I focus on cardio until it passes. Maybe a little clenbuterol to light the fire a little bit. You will ALWAYS have some type of side(s). I’m a purebred maniac, I’m single, and I don’t really follow common societal rules, so I have no problem with turning into an animal for the duration of the cycle. As long as I can pull myself together on Sundays for church so I don’t scare all of the hotties, I can deal with it...

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Thinking about carrying

Thinking about carrying ephedrine if this fentanyl shit will stop. Postal inspections are high right now.

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Tren

I like JD's comments a lot. His experience with Tren is similar to mine except I hate it lol. I like Tren being used to put on size. Most people don't. This is going to come down to how it affects your appetite. If you can eat on it, then you're gonna get big. If it suppresses your appetite, you will still fill out really well, but as far as putting on slabs of muscle throughout the cycle, doubtful.

If you can't eat or sleep, you're going to waste your bulking season on Tren. Nothing is more important than sleep. So if you have no appetite and you're up 7 times a night to piss, gains will be minimal.

It's still a monster of a drug and so youll still see results if your diet is clean and you're training hard. But they will disappear when you discontinue use.

I have tried my Test lower than Tren, equal to and higher and for me - I keep my Test between 1000-1500mg whenever I'm on any cycle. I treat my Tren like any other 19nor and run it about half of my Test. To each his own here.

I hate Tren because of the anxiety and the behavior changes. I don't like the way I feel or the way I treat people when I'm on it. I have decided to no longer run it as a result. I also don't like the lower back pumps that come with it. Try squatting or pulling on Tren and you'll know what I mean. Taurine helps. A little. Winstrol helps more.

So yeah. Tren. Try it. If you want. Maybe you'll get lucky. Or maybe you'll alienate yourself from people who care about you. Only one way to find out lol.

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Please take this with my utmost respect

Hey John nice to meet you on here.

The last line of your post says that you’re mostly concerned with size and mass, not strength. Now, I’m a complete newb when it comes to anabolics, but I would consider myself an expert in the field of training - especially strength training and weightlifting. When it comes to physical fitness, the idea is usually to make the body as efficient as possible; that’s why in every strength-focused sport there are weight classes. This is especially noticeable in rock climbing, where your strength-to-weight ratio is critical. I would just encourage you to consider your Mentality. I’m also open to enlightenment; I’d love to hear your (or anyone’s) thoughts on this.

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Mentality

His mentality is to get big as fuckkkkk.

"When it comes to physical fitness, usually the goal is to make the body as efficient as possible."

Says who?

Because my goals are my goals. And his goals and his. And yours are yours. If someone's goal is to build the most inefficient body possible, then that is their god given right to do so. We all have dominion over our own bodies. And nobody should have their mentality questioned simply because their goals differ feom yours.

His mentality seems fine to me, brother. Yours is the one I think needs adjustment.

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-1 Wonderpunk said "consider

-1 Wonderpunk said "consider his mentality"  not that it "needed adjustment" as you did. 

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A tad harsh for sure. 

A tad harsh for sure. 

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I agree.

My mentality definitely needs adjustment. And constant readjustment. If I know one thing for sure, it’s that I don’t really know anything for sure. Of course we are all entitled to our goals, but I’m glad that people have challenged my goals in this community. If I come here and I say, “Hey bros my goal is to do XYZ.” I hope that someone like Dolf or Jar would step in and say “Your goals aren’t what’s best for you right now... I would recommend XYZ instead.” I’m grateful that my intentions have been, and continue to be, challenged here. It’s all outta love, buddy. We all just want what’s best for each other. But sometimes We don’t know what’s best for ourselves.

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Hey WonderPunk, nice to meet

Hey WonderPunk, nice to meet you as well. I appreciate the info and input. I think you may have misunderstood what I meant about wanting muscle mass and size more than strength. What I meant is, the workout routine that builds the most size is very different from the one that builds max strength. I have bad joints so I’m not interested in doing sets with 3-4 reps like a power lifter to get my max the highest, but rather am going to be going for hypertrophy in the 8-12 rep range and going for time under tension, pause reps etc... to build more size. 

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Word...

Yeah that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying. I feel like a lot of times I just want it all, and all at the same time; I want to get huge, but I want to get lean, but I want to get strong... I want my muscle tissue to mature, but I don’t want to age. I want to be fast and flexible, but I want to be able to bench 400 lbs. Lol... is it surprising that we’re all pretty obsessive about this shit?

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Your stated goals are also

Your stated goals are also exactly what you’re gonna get with tren if you’re on point. It’s almost impossible to not put on lean mass on tren, it just kinda works like that. Tren is a straight vet steroid. There are two reasons for its use in cattle: to add bulk at the end of the feeding process to add extra weight (money), the other is to prevent muscle weight loss (money) during calorically deficient transport to market. So when you apply that to humans, you are going to see effects of bulking up while also preventing muscle loss when at a caloric deficit. That basically leaves the wiggle room in your diet. That’s why I mentioned thinking about it from a nutrient partitioning standpoint and how it responds so well to tiny tweaks in your diet. I’ve never gone on an all out bulk on tren but I’ve always put on mass while cutting. As far as fat loss goes, I’ve always had the best results with carb cycling. i Always tell everyone to get a notebook. Make a game plan, jot down your goals, how you plan to go about your diet and training, doses, injection frequency, feelings from a day to day basis, results, anything that you find noteworthy. You’ll be surprised how even on a relatively short cycle like tren, you will see patterns develope and have a much better grasp on where the adjustments need to be made over trying to think back and remember anything. A tren run is NOTHING like any other normal cycle, there can be a lot of eye opening info that you may like to keep track of

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Everyone here as said just

Everyone here as said just about all that can be said with respect to tren. However, I will add one small point that being don't make any BIG decisions while on tren. For me, I experience a slight degree of mania, and have made decisions that in retrospect were not the best decisions to make. They seemed great at the time, but ended up not so at the end of the day. I've seen the mania not only in myself, but others as well. It's a powerful compound in many ways, so tread lightly. I might even go so far as to suggest, nay, even implore you to run another test only cycle, perhaps an increased dose, and hold off on the 19's for another cycle or two, or even three. Someone probably already said that, so forgive the dead horse beating (I haven't had tome to do a close read on all of the replies, mostly skimmed...)

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John69 wrote:

John69 wrote:

Hey guys, I’ve been cruising for awhile making some good gains and I’m getting ready to do my next cycle. I took Semper Fi’s advice and got several more cycles under my belt and more experience before taking Tren. So, I’m ready to hop on the Tren train now and I would love everyone‘s advice. I‘m 215 lbs and have some mass on me, but not bad. My goal is not to get crazy lean, but rather to clean bulk and tone up what I have plus add more clean mass. I’ve done my research for the last 2 years very thoroughly. I should also state that my body tends to respond amazingly well to low doses. I gained nothing running a gram of test over running 500mg except for all the sides. So my plan is to Test E 250mg/week, 300mg/week Tren. I’m going to start with Ace because I know that’s the responsibleg thing to do to see how my body handles it and then switch over to E if all goes well for the less frequent pinning and since I’m using it more for bulking than cutting anyway. Plus that way I can just stay on my cruise of Test E as well. If you guys have any advice on how to tweak things to help get the most out of my cycle or see any flaws with my logic please let me know. I also would like some advice on rep and set ranges to get maximum growth on cycle as well. I’m more concerned with maximum size and muscle mass, not strength. Thanks guys. 

Why not run 500mg test since it is a good holding point for you AND add tren to the mix? I would do 500mg test and 250-300mg Tren. You will have no choice but to grow. Like Semperfi said, using tren during the summer will be brutal, IF you must I would suggest using Tren A, this way if it to much heat to handle it will exit your system in a few days. I also add that keeping your test at least a few 100mg higher than your tren will prevent limp'age.