Novice - cutting cycle

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Novice - cutting cycle

so I'm new to this but am currently weighing in at 91kg and am 181cm, don't know my bf but am keen to trim down whilst maintaining muscle. So I have opted for a cycle of Clenbutero, t3, anavar, winstrol and proviron. My aim is to get down to about 84/85kg.. Peoples thoughts please is this cycle right or should I add or remove anything?

 

 

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Cutting Cycle

28 year old Jamie, what's up? Thanks for posting this. As I read it I was given indication by the feelings rising up in me that the Tren is kicking in.

Before you start this "cycle" there might be a way you can reach your goal without doing the damage to your body that you'd be doing with this protocol.

Providing us with as much information about your background and where you are currently in terms of diet and training will help us as a community recommend a program to help you reach your goals. Outlining your current diet and training would be a great way to start.

Cheers, mate.

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Whoa, Pump the brakes hard

Whoa, Pump the brakes hard brother.  This is a dangerous protocol. Like Mr. A said, give us your stats, goals, prior cycles ran.  If you decide to be SMART you will only get good caring advice. If not, you are going to damage yourself...

The good news is you joined this site where we are grown men and women and want to help not bash.  The choice is yours...

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So I'm training 4/5 days a

So I'm training 4/5 days a week with generally half an hour of cardio per session

diet is not bad but could be better

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Drop it all & run Test E only

Drop it all & run Test E only.... that's the best cycle advice if you are set in your mind to cycle. 

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Brother

Thank you for your explanation, Jamie. Unfortunately there's not enough information here for me to help you.

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x2 jar

Jarhead cut to the chase and that is your starting point. That being said, a diet being "not bad", simply is not enough info.

Start by estimating your TDEE. It's a starting point to plan your diet. Please keep in mind that aas isn't a magic potion; it's the effort that put in with diet and training that truly determine the outcome. It's not fuel that wins race, it's the drivers skill that brings home the trophy :)

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Test E

I completely and respectfully disagree with Blast and Jarhead here. I am against the idea of "if you're going to do it anyway then do it safely." This is along the same lines of the one "cool mom" in the neighborhood who allowed her kids and their friends to drink in her house because she knew they would do it anyway and would rather them do it under her supervision than in the woods. This is not guidance. It teaches irresponsibility. 

OP doesn't have the work ethic to write down the exercises he does so it's safe to assume he won't have the work ethic required to pin consistently, take his AI consistently, buy all his ancillaries, complete a proper PCT, train consistently, get enough rest, hit his macros, etc.

I cannot condone nor stand idly by while others condone the use of steroids by someone who isn't ready for them and doesn't even need them to achieve his/her goals.

OP's goal of losing 6-7kg can be accomplished EASILY with a simple training and nutrition program. The fact that he feels the need to use Clen, T3, Anavar and Winstrol to lose 15 pounds is a clear indication that neither his training nor his nutrition is optimal.

We cannot, on one hand, criticize people for displaying the appropriate work ethic to achieve their goals while on the other hand, give people permission to use steroids when it's clear that in their mind using them is a way around the hard work of dieting and training with maximum effort.

Plenty of people on this site could write this kid a diet program and get him to reach his goal naturally in under a month. That's the only responsible advice to provide here.

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Of course 

Of course 

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This is one of the top 10

This is one of the top 10 posts on MG that I have ever read. It really cuts to the chase in several important areas.

 

SEMPER FI

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I agree with you MA. After I

I agree with you MA. After I wrote the post I second guessed myself. Albeit too late. Thanks for catching that. Shows that I need to slow down when reading and advising on a cycle especially for one like this one. Still learning... What I ended up noticing while thinking of this proposed plan was that Jamie picked a handful of compounds popular in cutting cycles with no mention of trs. Should have been a massive red flag. Vision is 20/20 in retrospect. Lesson learned.

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Iron Sharpens Iron

Nobody is perfect. Our power comes from cooperation and teachability. I'm a little off today and initially wanted to come at Jamie sideways. I had to put my phone down before I responded to his initial post. Damn Tren.

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lol 

lol 

dam that tren.  , i want ro say i miss it but after months off idk.  ..  im planning something and tren is not in the mix :)))

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Well at least you paused

Well at least you paused first! I jumped into the trap head first. Just pinned tren today, about a week behind you; takes about 3-4 days before it hits for me. Funny thing is I can almost tell when someones on tren just by the way a post is written. You covered your ass well ;)

Iron sharpens iron indeed, my damn blade has a way to go!

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+2 Blast... You didn't second

+2 Blast... You didn't second guess yourself too late. The best thing about MG is we learn every single time we log on. There isn't one active member that has posted something and 2nd guessed it. Bamm, Another learning experience. I say post what's in your heart and let others chime in. Mg is beneficial in many ways. We learn about AAS use, Science, etc. but the best thing is we learn so much about ourselves.

I'm glad I said I had to back away because I got heated. I too came back to this thread because I was dissatisfied with my post...

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x2+2 

x2+2 

excellent advice and the truth i know we are a no bashing site , and i know we give advice even under 25 (which honestly , i have mixed emotions on , but thats just my opion. , we all have a opion just like we all have a asshole or i would hope )   but. if his goal is to slim up.  , by all means. he dont need aas. espicially these compounds.  ... i agree full heartly with you. , his goals can be met without the use of aas 

now if he refuses the advice and insists on cycle. anyway. .. then i can understand a

 another brother helping so he runs safely. ..

 

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X2 with Mr. A..

X2 with Mr. A..

I have to back away from this thread. Jamie, You have an awful lot to think about.  Good luck to you. If you decide to get serious and put up real stats, goals, diet and expectations then you will get help. 

 

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FEW QUESITONS

Jamie, I know what you are hearing may not be easy to listen to or digest, but in the end we are ALL trying to help you do this as SAFELY and as effective as possible. So therefore let me see what I can do to help :) I am going to ask some questions, some may be tough, but in the end I just want you to be safe and happy with your results.

So to start lets do the hard hitting question first:

1-Have you used all these compounds before? Or are you trying a cutting cycle for the first time that you found online and figured that combo would be a good start? Reason I ask  is that is not a beginner stack (and could be unsafe if not used correctly), or is it one that should be used if you have not used all but 1 of those compounds already.

2-What does your diet actually consist of? or do you have no clue what your TDEE and fat/carb/protein count is for the day? Reason I ask is because of the "diet is not bad, but could be better" statement. Which leans towards the fact that your not tracking anything, and your diet may be way off of your desired goal. And trust me even when you "think" your eating clean, unless your actually tracking it your probably way off on calories and what your actually consuming. (I found that out myself the hardway!)

3-what are you training 4-5 times per week? And for what length of time? Weight training? HIIT training? Punching bag?

4-Does the 30 mins of cardio get added on to your training time or is it included? And what type of cardio?

5-What compounds have you used previously? <----extremely important!

My suggestions to you would be:

1-You need to get an app for your phone like MyFitnessPal, or MyPLate from livestrong, or even look one up online and log your food daily. I like the phone one as its more mobile and they have a scanner for food you eat! They help you track your food, protein, carbs, fat, cholesterol, sodium, etc all in the one app. That way you know EXACTLY what your diet is, and you can adjust it towards your weight loss goal.

2-Okay I have your TDEE calculated at 2944 calories. With a deficit of 500 calories a day to lose weight that puts you at 2444 calories a day. With 1 gram of Protein per body weight that puts you at 200grams of protein (800 calories), 82 grams fat (733 calories), and 228 carbs (912 calories) per day. Some others (like blast, mister A) are pro's at this (and more experienced with cutting) and may be able to give you an even better Protein/Carb/Fat write up to help you lose weight, and honestly would probably be excited to do so! (they live for this stuff!!) THIS DIET ALONE PLUS CORRECT EXERCISE WOULD PROBABLY HELP YOU REACH YOUR GOAL WITHOUT AAS.

3-Give us more background and answer these questions so that we can help guide you "SAFELY" through your first cutting cycle! Besides in the end if your diet isn't on point and your training your basically pissing money down the toilet with little keepable results!

Good luck and hope this helps!

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+2 Titanings for such a

+2 Titanings for such a respectful reply and the questions you asked... You show a lot of patience...

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Titanings - appreciate your time and effort with reply

Firstly I would like to apologise for pretty dismal posts initially I wasn't 100% on what feedback would be like and whether it was worth my time but now I can honestly say MG is a truly brilliant site with a lot of really nice and inspirational individuals gracing its pages.

To answer your questions please see below for as specific as I can get;

1: The only compound I have used out of these is anavar but was many years ago and I did get relatively good results. In terms of cutting cycle yes I did find this online as originally weighed 104kg 6 months ago and naturally got myself down to 90/91kg but am at a weight I would say I'm happy with but need to strip back bf as that is now my overarching problem.

2: I personally have not been tracking but have downloaded myfitnesspal and have started tracking yesterday as I need to strip back bf. I have lost weight through lots of cardio and training as much as possible along with a novice mans approach to dieting. So to answer your question no I haven't been monitoring and thank you for your suggestion I will work to that over the coming weeks/months to reach my target goal.

3: So I set my days by large muscles such as chest w/ little tri's, back w/ little bi's, legs, arms & shoulders with 30 mins cardio (treadmill to be specific bolted on to the end of every workout).  General training time per session including cardio is about 1hr 15mins

4: Cardio I generally do treadmill but occasionally will opt for rowing machine and is bolted on to the end.

5: Previously used have been Sus 250, D-Bol & Anavar

Suggestions are really appreciated . Thank you very much.

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Joyous

Jamie, your response is like reading Wordsworth or Byron for the first time. Beautiful. Heartfelt. Soul stirring. My hope in the internet is renewed.

Titan, grateful job having the patience to stick it out. It didn't look like Jamie was going to respond after all of us had our say, but your willingness to write up a post full of suggestions while most of us had begun to give up was what this thread needed.

Great job on what you've lost already. The big thing about using oral steroids like Anavar and Proviron is that they can still shut down your natural testosterone production which means they'll require a PCT after use. Here at MG, we are all in agreement that oral only cycles are a bad idea. It's difficult to stabilize your hormones levels and shutting down your system for just an oral is not worth the trouble. Furthermore, steroids are ineffective at causing fat loss in individuals over 10% BF. Stripping away body fat is always going to be the result of cardio and diet. The drugs that can burn fat on their own are going to make you feel like shit or possibly create unwanted health issues.

Focus on building your self discipline by creating daily habits with your diet and training. Try to build a diet that you can follow everyday. Get locked in. Become a machine. Develop the character of someone who lives a bodybuilding lifestyle. Pack your meals in Tupperware and bring them with you to work. Eat at the same times every day if possible. Buy a good food scale and measure what you eat. Track your macros, calories and weight every day so you can make adjustments to your diet confidently. Reward yourself with a cheat meal once a week.

Developing your discipline will take time, but it is the most important aspect of this. We can talk grams of this and milligrams of that all day, but unless you develop the character of someone who can display consistency and resilience in achieving his goal, the best plan in the world will be useless. The best drug protocol with the highest quality drugs will be of no benefit to the novice trainer who does not have complete control over the primary disciplines of bodybuilding. Many will argue this fact and think they can make up the difference in their shortcomings with drugs. This is an example of drug abuse. It's irresponsible and most of all - it's lazy.

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This thread has turned into a

This thread has turned into a work of art no less than a master piece :)

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This whole thread is a

This whole thread is a testament to the quality people here

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Clen nor t3 are novice

Clen nor t3 are novice compounds. Winstrol for that matter isn't either. If you're not willing to pin, diet, and train properly then steroids are not for you. Plain and simple. If you can't lose 13 to 15lbs natty then aas is not for you. Aas is not a diet pill. You don't use aas to lose weight. You use aas to cut bf and at the same time add lean muscle. Steroids are not a magic pill. It takes research, advice, diet, and hard work on your part. I don't care what site you go to you will not recieve steroid use advice for something that's easily achieved naturally. This is not bashing or flaming, but people lookingbout for your safety and well being. 

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Jamie round 2!

Ok first of all let me say THANK YOU for listening to what was said and answering the questions and being open to suggestions! We are here to help you safely first and foremost :) So here comes the questions:

1-Do you have the MyFitnessPal app set up? Are you running it and entering everything your eating and following the diet?

2-Have you already purchased the cycle you listed above? I am hoping the answer here is no but we can still make things work (to a safe degree) if you have. If you have how much do you have and what dosages are we talking about here?

3-Are you willing to tweak your exercise program just a lil more to further help conquer your goal?

You need 4 things to make a steroid cycle successful. First and most important-DIET, Second most important-EXERCISE to compliment your goal, Third-safe and researched cycle with a full understanding of EVERYTHING your putting in your body that compliments your goal, Fourth-a reasonable and obtainable goal. I give this analogy: Steroids is like playing college football and swapping out your quarterback for tom brady (superbowl champ).... if everything works together you have a great chance of winning!.....but he (steroids) CAN NOT win the game by himself!

Ok so now the first thing is Diet. Mr A is right in you need to work on getting your diet down to an exact science especially if your trying to be shredded, but this is something that is accomplished with lots of practice and dedication. So for now we will settle with you having the MyFitness app, and the fact that you have set it up to lose weight, and it has given you your daily caloric goal....and your following that goal.....correct? And FYI You can adjust the percentages of protein, carbs, and fat at the bottom of the page where you enter your meals, just hit NUTRITION, then MACROS on the right, and tap on one of the percentages and adjust all three (protein, carbs, fat) where you want them to be. Even if you set it to easy mode for losing weight, just start working on following the diet as best you can right now, it will help you become better at it for your cycle!

Second is Exercise. You are lookin to burn calories and be shredded, therefore you need to increase your volume and shock your body. Increase your weight training to an hour a day followed by 30 mins of cardio, or HIIT training. So to increase your volume you need to do more reps, with less rest time in between, really push yourself to completely destroy the body parts your working on before even touching the cardio or HIIT training. Try doing supersets (curls to skullcrusher back to back with no rest between). Try studying some hit training and replace running on the tread mill, or hitting the elypticals, or working the punching bags, or 30 mins of swimming laps at the end of a workout is brutal. This is really a chance for you to explore everything your gym has to offer! Plus you might find something new you really like!

Now we have your diet beginning to shape up....your exercise volume and intensity being increased....these two alone will do WONDERS towards your goal! Now lets talke about your cycle. If you have not ordered any of those things then I would run a test and anavar only cycle, I know you will shake your head a lil on this one but if you mix those with changes in your diet and exercise your goal will be right there! Now if you already have the stuff in hand then I would say this: Run test and anavar since you have ran both of them before with no problems and add in some winstrol. The rest of it just put it away for another cycle. The reason is you do NOT want to add more than one new compound per cycle, otherwise you could literally end up having to stop your whole cycle from side effects that you have no idea which new compound is causing!

I hope all this helps you to conquer your goal! Safe cycling my brotha :)

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Titanings - thanks again for

Titanings - thanks again for the post I hadn't realised anyvody had replied and just wanted to say I have taken everything on board from your post and will update you all accordingly..

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Titanings - thanks again for

Titanings - thanks again for the post I hadn't realised anyvody had replied and just wanted to say I have taken everything on board from your post and will update you all accordingly..

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Titanings - thanks again for

Titanings - thanks again for the post I hadn't realised anyvody had replied and just wanted to say I have taken everything on board from your post and will update you all accordingly..

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Good deal

look forward to hearing what has happened, and wish you good luck with all your new found info. The right choice is now in your court my friend, be safe :)

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As said above stick with just

As said above stick with just test.  People always think there's cutting gear and bulking gear. Kind of but not really you can get ripped off of test only if your diet is on point. I always tell guys until you research nutrition and understand it you shouldn't even consider any use of gear. Diet is key muscles are made in the kitchen. No need to add all these other compounds instead focus on diet and a low dose of test can do the trick 4sure. You can never learn too much and when you think you know it all keep researching 

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Well put brotha +1

Well put brotha +1