Metformin (Glucophage) use with carb-heavy meals for better nutrient utilization

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Metformin (Glucophage) use with carb-heavy meals for better nutrient utilization

Guys - I have been doing research for months and months about Glucophage. I am not diabetic personally, but rather carb-sensitive. I believe at the root of this is mild Insulin Resistance which i take supplements like R-ALA, chromium, cinnamon,...etc and it works like a charm. My fasting morning glucose is ~ 84. My glucose read after (1.5 hours) an average meal (~ 30g crabs or so) is ~ 89 utilizing these supplements with meals ofcourse.

With post workout meals where i engage more carbs to spike insulin, i do get some bloating, and weight gain. So I've been thinking about adding metformin , maybe @ 850mg once a day with post workout meal (carb rich meal). On non-workout days, i'd take it with the heaviest carb meal. The reasoning here is to utilize Metformin's ability to sensitize the muscle tissues to absorb a bigger quantity of the glucose flowing in the blood & hence less glucose available in the bloodstream to flow to fat cells and get "stored" as fat. 

This can be a huge help to consume more carbs and have more utility of the carbs ingested towards muscle than fat. From the experiments published online, i seen that Metformin has the ability to sensitize mostly skeletal muscle tissues to absorb more of the glucose. 

I wonder about the negative sides of using metformin long periods of time at this dosage 850mg once a day everyday? Do i need to cycle on & off of it for safety reasons ?? I see too many conflicted opinions about this on forums online. I also see anecdotal writeups about metformin induced kidney problems, but havent seen it documented in any formal research. If its, please point me to it. 

Please share your experience with Metformin - dosage, and regimn (cycle on/off or continuous use), timing,...etc. Would love to hear the MG community's experiences or research about this.

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Never really researched or

Never really researched or used the stuff but very interested in hearing others responses. I think I'm in the same boat as you carb wise so I need to pay attention :)

A lot of good pubmed articles on it so that helps.

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What i could gather from my

What i could gather from my research - Metformin is great in sensitizing muscle tissues to utilize glucose in the blood. It affects the insulin pathways, which are same pathways for IGF-1, hence some research suggests it significantly decreases IGF-1 by means of receptor binding - seen conflicting research on this!!!! Also seen that metformin administration of 500 mg 3x daily (1500mg daily) for 3 weeks caused decrease in Testosterone, and also inhibits cell proliferation which makes Metformin great for some cancer treatments. But for bodybuilding that would be shitty since it would stop myogenesis (creating new muscle tissue).

Need input here guys! do the benefits outweigh the negatives? Has anybody done any lab work pre & post using metformin for some stretch of time that can chime in with some insight?

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I'll try and research a bit

I'll try and research a bit for ya when I can. I know a couple NPC guys that have used it so I will try and get some feedback from them. 

Trying to work on some good topics for some compounds that aren't widely known or popular so maybe it can add this in :)

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rock on bro! Would appreciate

rock on bro! Would appreciate feedback on this interesting compound.

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Haven't forgot about you Sam

Haven't forgot about you Sam my man, just had a tooth extraction and bone graft in my jaw so I'm laid up for a day. I'll get to this I promise :)

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dude, the more i research

dude, the more i research Metformin, the more i get extreme views.

Now im reading Metformin inhibits AMPK. AMPK is the main element in activating MTOR which drives protein synthesis. If thats true, then im shutting down protein synthesis in my body!?! WTF... sounds down right silly & counter productive!

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Well that's not cool lol.

Well that's not cool lol. Guess I got more reading to do. You da man Sam :)

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anybody? Metformin?? Calling

anybody? Metformin?? Calling once, calling twice, .... lol

would love some feedback on this.  

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swolesam

I can't say that I've used metformin successfully. I can tell you that I have been reading here and there on its use in the bodybuilding community, I can tell you that I have some on hand in case I find definitive answers...

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Storm - you didnt like it ?

Storm - you didnt like it ? or it simply didnt do anything for you?

I do have some on hand as well, not expensive at all to acquire. Hence if its useful, i would plan its use year round! But not if what people are experiencing is matching what im reading about inhibiting muscle growth,...etc.

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swolesam

I just couldn't tell if it did anything for me. I used post high carb meals 1000mg...just couldn't tell

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+2 sam for great info. I was

+2 sam for great info. I was looking through this section of the forums and thought about you could have a hayday posting info here. You are wbo they call the supplement king...correct? : )

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supplement king = Man

supplement king = Man spending every dime he makes into the supplement industry deep pockets? HAHA , u calling me a sucker man?? LOL jk obviously.

i posted that a while back, because im always interested in glucose metabolism and enhancing the nutrient shuttling more into skeletal muscle than fat tissue. I used metformin for a couple of days @ 800mg low dose brand name and i felt like indigestion and wasnt a good over all feeling. I read the forums out there and they say it takes some people about a week or so to "adjust" to it and i wasnt ready to feel like shit for a week with bad digestion, so i dropped it.

Its cheap as hell even the brand name, and you can catch it during promos time from suppliers for peanuts. I just hope i give it a whirl for 2 weeks at some point and see if it works out for me. 

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Interesting article.


I have been hearing a lot lately about bodybuilder using metphormin in their drug protocols. In some sense, it is a replacement or subsitute for insulin, which is very dangerous to use. Metphormin increases insulin sensitivity thus aiding in shuttling carbohydrates into our muscle cells. It also has some draw backs. In the link to the article that I have included in this post, the author addresses those negative concerns, namely mTOR inhibition by AMPK. Metphormin is also known to decrease androgen receptors. The evidence is often conflicting between laboratory studies and anecdotal evidence. At any rate, here is the link, and a little exerpt that I have pasted within this post, which somewhat supports the idea of using methormin. (I know, it's ironmagazine, not ncbi. Sometimes, or even often, ncbi articles can be quite difficult to understand for the layman). (A quick note, I believe leucine may be the amino acid that activates mTOR)

http://www.ironmagazine.com/2015/metformin-and-muscle-growth/

THE EXERPT.

Still, if we are going to be activating AMPK to a greater degree than normal, we should take steps to ensure mTOR continues exerting its anabolic effects at maximum capacity/near maximum capacity. Fortunately, mTOR can be activated in many different ways, and with bodybuilders already taking advantage of many of these on a continual basis, there is no danger of suppressing growth rate to a significant degree. Factors such as training, diet, drug use, and even the consumption of certain amino acids are all capable of activating mTOR to various degrees. When combined, they can provide a dramatic increase in mTOR that far exceeds the inhibitory influence of any insulin sensitizer, not to mention the positive effects that sensitizers themselves have on recover and growth via improved insulin sensitivity, increased Glut-4 expression, increased muscle glucose uptake, etc. There really is no need for concern. Real-world results confirm this, with innumerable bodybuilders having reaped the benefits of these products without any report of hindered growth.

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I used it already

I used Metformin a couple of months ago on my pre and post workout meals because it had loads of carbs (following the Intermittent fasting protocol, the meal portions are huge) and I had a good result with it, I wasn't bloating, felt more muscle fullness and satisfied. I was using 500 mg with the pre workout meal and post workout meal or heavy carb meals but in the result of that, there's was a party down the toilet next morning ahahah true. I stopped using it because during a lot of research that I've done about it, it showed to decrease amount of human growth hormone in the body, the benefits are regulate insulin levels and absorb the nutrients to the muscle tissue avoiding the fat cells absorb the excess of carbs, as it's prescribed for diabetic people and it helps on weight loss for that reason.

I substitute it for glycolog, it's a supplement, not so strong as Metformin but it doesn't have the negative effects and it helps to regulate insulin and transport the nutrients to the muscle too.

I hope it helps :) 

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I'll look into glycolol since

I'll look into glycolol since what I would use metphormin for the negatives seem to outweigh the positives for me anyways. Good post Msfit :)

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Couldn't find glycolol...

Couldn't find glycolol... methyl glycolol i found but it's for psychiatric conditions

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Sorry my mistake

I wrote it incorrectly, I ment glycolog see if you can find it :) 

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Here is Glucolog explained by

Here is Glucolog explained by its creator, Guerrilla Chemist for Blackstone Labs.

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+1 msfit & +1 subz for good

+1 msfit & +1 subz for good info !

im def love nutrient partitioning agents.

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Good to see you back my

Good to see you back my friend!!!

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thanks, great to see you're

thanks, great to see you're doing well ! 

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Thank you :)

I still have a lot to learn in this very complex sport but if I can help, I'm always available for that :)

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i love learning something new

i love learning something new everyday, but we need to be near damn scientists to figure out all the chemical interactions happening in the body :) Between experimenting which i love to do, and getting labs & analyzing them, and trying new protocols/products, its a full time job but the picture gets to be clearer & clearer and results seem to be more impressive as progress is made over time. 

Great stuff.

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And when messing with both

And when messing with both the exocrine and endocrine systems there never a simple one to one relationship. One hormone, or protein controls another almost endlessly. It's as though when you add one, you have to account for the imbalance your body perceives, and add something else, or just know and accept the negatives in view of the benefits, and know when change dosage, or discontinue the exogenously administered hormone or peptide. It's tricky business this biology thing!

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very true.

very true.

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Couldn't agree more :) and

Couldn't agree more :) and each individual has his unique formula 

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+1 for obvious reasons.

+1 for obvious reasons. Thanks :)

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Do some research on glucose

Do some research on glucose disposal agents. I don't recommend a specific brand but knowing the ingredients and what they do are part of the key of maximizing the intended results.

Glucophage (metformin) should be slowly incorporated to allow for body tolerance. 500mg per serving to start for a 132lb female is NOT recommended as MsFitt appears to have learned. Only about 10% of users experience the intestinal problems that we see reported. It is well tolerated by the majority of users.

Glucophage has been prescribed since the 50's and has been vastly researched. An OTC is not as effective but is something for consideration.

 

 

 

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Thanks subzeronation

Always a good intervention :) You're right, it was a very high dosage for me but we do mistakes and we learn from them. Thank God that I didn't take it for long and it didn't do any damage because I understood it on time that there were other good options. 

 

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Met

The primary failure with anti-diabetic drugs such as Metformin is their inability to direct glucose specifically into the muscle cell. The secondary failure stems from the ignorance of the user.

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true! but isnt that an issue

true! but isnt that an issue with ALL nutrition portioning agents? That they basically help shuttle the glucose OUT of the blood and either into the liver or muscle or fat cells IN THAT ORDER? 

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Insulin is a regulatory

Insulin is a regulatory hormone primarily. Most call it a storage hormone. Storage is a result of regulating blood sugar levels. It removes glucose from the blood in a manner it is accustomed to per the lifestyle of the individual. Muscle can only hold so much, so the couch potato gets glucose stored in fat cells since the muscle is not used much and likely has plenty of glycogen. Its my undestanding, which may be and likely is askew to a degree, that its lifestyle that really determines what depository gets the deposit. In some sense, insulin is like a money manager seeking to keep finances balanced.

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i hear different bro. from my

i hear different bro. from my understanding its an order insulin goes through. 1st it checks the liver and the muscles, if their glycogen stores are not full, it deposits there. If they are full, then it goes to store into fat cells.

So when you stimulate your muscles in weights session, you deplete their glycogen stores, hence they recommend spiking insulin after workouts to promote shuttling the glycogen-depleted muscle cells with glucose. 

i dont know if im right or wrong, i just remmeber watching & reading too many sources saying this.

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Exactly. I guess i worded it

Exactly. I guess i worded it weird

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You're exactly right sam. 

You're exactly right sam. 

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Glucose Dsposal

I was doing some searching around to further my understanding of glucose disposal, and hopefully add something of interest to the conversation. I found that perhaps there isn't necessarily a hierarchy of disposal (such as liver->skeletal muscle->adipose), but more of an allotment by percentage to various tissues. I have included a small excerpt and diagram from an in depth article discussing glucose disposal (which goes well beyond mere insulin. Other hormones involved are glucogon, cortisol, epinephrine, growth hormone, and FFA, or free fatty acids).   For the purposes of explanantion, the diagram shows 100g of glucose ingested. First, the liver takes the full 100g, keeping 30g for a variety of purposes beyond mere storage. The liver then releases 70g to be delivered to other tissues and organs. 27g to muscle tissue, 15g to the brain, 8g to the kidneys, and 5g to adipose tissue. Thus, glucose disposal is a bit more complex than a hierarchical model. For the complete article click the link:

https://www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda.../9780387098401-c1.pdf?

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Thank you

Very good piece of information, that's why is so important to look after the liver, everything goes through there! And to ingest good carbs.

What would be the most beneficial gdas/ food partition agents as supplement to take? I've been taking chromium and adding cinnamon in my food daily and I was looking to buy some berberine too but I'm waiting to find out if it's worthy while on a cutting diet (less carbs won't cause that much waste to be converted in fat storage as in maintaining phase and off)

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Msfit

Optimizing natural insulin sensitivity and response is much easier while in a caloric deficit e.g. when the goal is to reduce overall bodyweight.

My question would be is why are you looking to supplement your natural storage ability while in the process of reducing your (fat) storage? Such an initiative seems contradictory to me so I am eager to learn from you.

 

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The link does not work

The link does not work

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When i get home, ill see if i

When i get home, ill see if i can post the link again. Maybe i didnt get the full url?

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I must have lucked out

I must have lucked out somehow the first time. Now its asking me for an access code. If I can get it to actually download onto my computer, Ill post all 16 heady pages of the article

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Excellent

Excellent link and info my friend. Helps us laymen understand such a complex subject easily.

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I sense facetiousness ;)

I sense facetiousness ;)

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Facetious

Not an ounce, Brother. I'm here to learn and poke fun at myself. I'm smarter than the average bear, but the average bear isn't very smart. I have done my research on insulin however. When your path is straight it's easy to see what lies ahead of you.

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juicy info !!!! thanks

juicy info !!!! thanks Blaster! def +1 for that. 

People have become SO STINGY with the upvotes these days, geeez... this is def worth an upvote from me.

 

Your link has the "..." which probably depending on how you copied the link trimmed out the actual link contents... Here's the proper link = 

https://www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda_downloaddocument/9780387098401-c1.pdf?SGWID=0-0-45-855761-p173833708

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Good job sam, i tried to find

Good job sam, i tried to find a proper link for a fair bit of time to no avail. Thanks :)

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Negative

Sam:

No. There are agents which direct carbohydrates specifically into the muscle cell.

No. There is a sort of payment system and certain organs, cells, mechanisms, etc demand higher payment i.e. have more priority in the doing out of carbohydrates.

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Mister-A - are you guna tease

Mister-A - are you guna tease me & not please me ?? ;) LOL

you got my inquisitive mind hungry for info now .... what agents do you know are efficient in discriminantly and selectively disposing glucose into muscle tissues ? 

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Check out that video above if

Check out that video above if you havent already. Gives a nice view imto the workings of glucose uptake into cells. Insulin is just one tiny step in the whole procesd

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